8 And again, tobacco is not for the body, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.
9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.
10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—
11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.
12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;
13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.
14 All grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;
15 And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.
16 All grain is good for the food of man; as also the fruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—
17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.
18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;
19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;
20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.
21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.
Ok, lets start with this.
8 And again, tobacco is not for the body, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.
Ok, I do not smoke, and I believe it is a waste of money, But apart from that, Honestly how many faithful LDS members can say, they use tobacco for bruises or how many LDS know of cattle ranchers who use tobacco on the livestock they own?
10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—
11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.
12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;
13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.
From the time of Adam and Eve in the garden till the time Noah stepped of the Ark, we were only allowed to eat fruit and herbs. After Noah stepped of the Ark, then we were allowed to eat meat. But in verses 12 and 13 it states meat is both to be used sparingly and only in times of winter or famine.
I am guessing that LDS are not going with a complete Vegan diet in the summer. If not then you either are not obeying the WOW or you dont take these verses seriously. Why is that?
Ok, Chuck the LDS member quoted much from the OT in the way of verses that state certain people could not eat Raisins, or grapes because they are fruit from the vine and could be made into wine, and wine is a big no, no, according to the WOW. Then Chuck stated these were laws for all to follow, well here is another problem, read verse16
All grain is good for the food of man; as also the fruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground
In verse 16, we read, we can partake of the fruit of the vine. No where in the entire WOW does it say what the fruit of the vine is, or is not. Grapes grow on vines, once the grapes are removed and dried they form raisins, Well according to the verse Chuck quoted and the things he said, these verse prove and are laws saying we cannot eat from the fruit of the vine, Now the WOW says we can. Strange.
Here in verse 17 we read
17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.
Grain can be used for mild drinks. So what are Mild drinks made with Barly or grain? Beer is mild compared to whisky. what about Hot mild drinks, Does this mean that any mild drink must be served cold? If so why not cold coffee or tea?
What about these verses here?
18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;
19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;
20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.
21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.
I have posted over 500 replys on the fairLDS board, When over their I talked with many LDS who admited they do not fully follow the WOW to the letter. If your reading this topic, you could post and say you follow the WOW to the letter, I do not know if your lying or not, only you do, But for all the LDS who know in their heart that they do not fully obey the WOW, I would ask this, Has the destorying angel destoryed you?
If not, then is that a lie? Or will God destory you at a latter time? What about the verse in the Bible where Jesus said,
Mat 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
Mat 15:20 These are [the things] which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
Mar 7:15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.
Mar 7:18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, [it] cannot defile him;
So according to Jesus, it is not what goes into us (Coffee, tea, wine, meat Etc) that defiles us, but what comes out of us. Rick b
4 comments:
The scatter shot approach of Joseph Smith in controlling the diet of believers was bound to turn up at least one hit, the main health benefit from the supposed revelation in stopping tobacco use. It has been found to be harmful, that being said. There are several misses, too. There are benefits from drinking moderate amounts of alcohol, wine, and drinking other hot beverages like tea. Teas especially green teas have been shown to have health benefits.
Now about drug use. Utah also has one of the highest rates of using legal drugs particularly anti-depressants. So if a drug is legal use it, if not don't. But it turns out that many of these legal drugs are now being found to be just has harmful as the illicit ones.
God Bless, and Merry Christmas, to All.
Devin, A few things first. Merry Christmas to you.
Timothy wants to know if your going to reply to him, For some reason he has a blog and a blogger account, but cannot post here, so he goes through me, and he wanted me to ask you.
Now you say Joseph Smith, who in 1838 urged Word of Wisdom observance, "never interpreted the revelation as demanding total abstinence, but stressed moderation and self-control." researcher Paul Peterson observed:
It seems the LDS simply cannot agree. Look at what Chuck wrote, He claims to be an LDS member and he claims that the OT laws are laws for ALL to obey, this seems to include the WOW.
Below are things YOUR church teaches about the WOW, This is not stuff I am making up. My question is, Who do I believe? This stuff does not agree with the people you quote, nor does it agree with Chuck, or you.
The Word of Wisdom is a very important element of the Mormon faith. It is understood to be a binding command from God. Those who don't obey the Word of Wisdom are not allowed to enter LDS temples.
The LDS course manual Achieving a Celestial Marriage says on page 31,
When you are interviewed for a temple recommend you will be asked about—
1. Church attendance.
2. Payment of tithes and offerings.
3. Loyalty to Church leaders.
4. Moral cleanliness.
5. Overall faithfulness and worthiness.
6. Obedience to the Word of Wisdom.
Most people recognize the prohibition in the Word of Wisdom against tobacco, alcohol, and coffee/tea ("hot drinks"); this is what is generally thought of in the context of the Word of Wisdom. However, there's much more to the revelation/commandment (Doctrine and Covenants 89) including the use of strong drinks for washing; the use of tobacco for bruises and sick cattle; the eating of meat and poultry sparingly and only in winter or times of famine.
Do Latter-day Saints observe the whole commandment? Do temple-worthy Mormons?
Look what YOUR prophet teaches.
LDS President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote,
"SALVATION AND A CUP OF TEA. You cannot neglect little things. 'Oh, a cup of tea is such a little thing. It is so little; surely it doesn't amount to much; surely the Lord will forgive me if I drink a cup of tea.' …if you drink coffee or tea, or take tobacco, are you letting a cup of tea or a little tobacco stand inn the road and bar you from the celestial kingdom of God, where you might otherwise have received a fulness of glory?" (Doctrines of Salvation 2:16)
This was taken from the Offical LDS website The Word of Wisdom
Your body is a precious gift from God. To help keep our bodies and our minds healthy and strong, God gave a law of health to Joseph Smith in 1833. This law is known as the Word of Wisdom.
In addition to emphasizing the benefits of proper eating and physical and spiritual health, God has spoken against the use of:
* Tobacco.
* Alcohol.
* Coffee and tea.
* Illegal drugs.
God promises great physical and spiritual blessings to those who follow the Word of Wisdom. Today, the scientific community promotes some of the same principles that a loving God gave to Joseph Smith nearly two centuries ago.
Now the question is, Is it a binding law to be followed and obeyed or not? If we can only follow some of it can we enter the temple and be saved? Rick b
Devin, Like I said, if you want to follow a certain diet good for you. But as I quoted before, Jesus said, it is not what goes into a man that defiles him. So if we drink Coffee, tea, Beer Etc that will not defile us. Then BY and JS drank, that is very clear they did.
About all the verses you quoted, I agree, we should not cause a brother to stumble, but, lets say I drank and knew it would cause a brother to stumble, I simply could drink at home, alone. Example, I could have a glass of wine with dinner with out my weak brother around.
Again, JESUS was clear, food does not Defile, Jesus said All foods are made clean for men, and Jesus also drank wine. Rick b
Devin,
I will be honest with you here, as I believe I always am.
Do you and other LDS members either ignore what I say, or want to believe something I did not say?
You asked me what I think about what were your thouts on Christian David J. Stewart from jesus-is-savior.com wrote on in "The Deceitfulness of Liquor!" ?
I said what I did above because, this guy said and you quote him saying He continues "..If you look for the word "sober" in the New Testament, it appears over and over concerning believers--we are to be sober (alert). The word "sober" means that we are to avoid ANYTHING that dulls our thinking or makes us vulnerable to Satanic attack. No believer has any business drinking alcohol..."
Now I never said it was OK to get drunk or be drunk. The verse you quote from him seems to imply I either said or believe it is ok to get drunk. People can drink, does this mean because they drink, they are atoumactily drunks? No. Because if they were, then we have serious problems.
A few things we read in the bible, and I already mentioned is, Jesus drank wine and made wine. Jesus said food and drink do not condem us. Paul told timothy to drink some wine for his stomach problems.
Their were people in the Bible called judeisers who tryed putting people under laws and bondage, Paul rebuked them for this. The bible tells us not to Judge people for the food and drink and holy traditions they follow. I will not keep going back and forth with anyone on this issue. I will only give the same verses over and over again.
Some Christians have the freedom to drink others do not. The Bible is clear, getting drunk is a sin, drinking is not a sin. One thing you seem to fail to adress is, JS and BY made and drank Alcohol, Yet you try and say drinking is wrong according to what some man says.
Why not adress the issue of your prophets failing to follow the WoW before telling me I should follow it when even the Bible does not mention it. Adress the other issue of, If the WoW really is from God and not man, why did Jesus drink Wine and Turn water to Wine? Why did Jesus say Food and drink do not defile? Why could God not bring this Law/ Command/ Doctrine about 2,000 years ago, why did he wait till JS came around? Then after waiting till JS came around, He only gave it as a good advice type idea and wait 18 yeares to make it a law. All question I think you will have a hard time answering.
Anyway, As I said, I will not keep going back and forth, I said what I am going to say. Rick b
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