Jared and the tower of Babel?

We read in the Bible, the account given about the tower of Babel. But I bet you did not know, there is a different account of the tower of Babel given in the Book of Mormon. It tells the story about Jared and God not confounding their language. Let's first read what the Bible teaches.

Gen 11:1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.

Gen 11:2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.

Gen 11:3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.

Gen 11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top [may reach] unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

Gen 11:5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.

Gen 11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people [is] one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

Gen 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there , that they may not understand one another's speech.

Gen 11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

Gen 11:9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

Now here is the account given in the BoM, found in Ether Chapter 1:33-43

33 Which Jared came forth with his brother and their families, with some others and their families, from the great tower, at the time the Lord confounded the language of the people, and swore in his wrath that they should be scattered upon all the face of the earth; and according to the word of the Lord the people were scattered.

34 And the brother of Jared being a large and mighty man, and a man highly favored of the Lord, Jared, his brother, said unto him: Cry unto the Lord, that he will not confound us that we may not understand our words.

35 And it came to pass that the brother of Jared did cry unto the Lord, and the Lord had compassion upon Jared; therefore he did not confound the language of Jared; and Jared and his brother were not confounded.

36 Then Jared said unto his brother: Cry again unto the Lord, and it may be that he will turn away his anger from them who are our friends, that he confound not their language.

37 And it came to pass that the brother of Jared did cry unto the Lord, and the Lord had compassion upon their friends and their families also, that they were not confounded.

38 And it came to pass that Jared spake again unto his brother, saying: Go and inquire of the Lord whether he will drive us out of the land, and if he will drive us out of the land, cry unto him whither we shall go. And who knoweth but the Lord will carry us forth into a land which is choice above all the earth? And if it so be, let us be faithful unto the Lord, that we may receive it for our inheritance.

39 And it came to pass that the brother of Jared did cry unto the Lord according to that which had been spoken by the mouth of Jared.

40 And it came to pass that the Lord did hear the brother of Jared, and had compassion upon him, and said unto him:

41 Go to and gather together thy flocks, both male and female, of every kind; and also of the seed of the earth of every kind; and thy families; and also Jared thy brother and his family; and also thy friends and their families, and the friends of Jared and their families.

42 And when thou hast done this thou shalt go at the head of them down into the valley which is northward. And there will I meet thee, and I will go before thee into a land which is choice above all the lands of the earth.

43 And there will I bless thee and thy seed, and raise up unto me of thy seed, and of the seed of thy brother, and they who shall go with thee, a great nation. And there shall be none greater than the nation which I will raise up unto me of thy seed, upon all the face of the earth. And thus I will do unto thee because this long time ye have cried unto me.

Ok as you can see and read for yourself, these two accounts simply do not line up, I also did the article about the barge with holes in it, found in the Book of Ether chapter 3. So as a side note here is the Dictionary Definition of ETHER.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) - Cite This Source
e‧ther  /ˈiθər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ee-ther] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. Also called diethyl ether, diethyl oxide, ethyl ether, ethyl oxide, sulfuric ether. Chemistry, Pharmacology. a colorless, highly volatile, flammable liquid, C4H10O, having an aromatic odor and sweet, burning taste, derived from ethyl alcohol by the action of sulfuric acid: used as a solvent and, formerly, as an inhalant anesthetic.
2. Chemistry. (formerly) one of a class of compounds in which two organic groups are attached directly to an oxygen atom, having the general formula ROR.
3. the upper regions of space; the clear sky; the heavens.
4. the medium supposed by the ancients to fill the upper regions of space.
5. Physics. a hypothetical substance supposed to occupy all space, postulated to account for the propagation of electromagnetic radiation through space. Compare Michelson-Morley experiment.

I am simply pointing out here that ETHER, according to the Dictionary, is or can be a really bad thing, and the accounts in the Book of Ether do not agree with the Bible.

Then, I could add that verse 43 does not line up with the account given in the Bible either.

43 And there will I bless thee and thy seed, and raise up unto me of thy seed, and of the seed of thy brother, and they who shall go with thee, a great nation. And there shall be none greater than the nation which I will raise up unto me of thy seed, upon all the face of the earth. And thus I will do unto thee because this long time ye have cried unto me.

First off, if this account were true, and it supposedly takes places at the tower of Babel, it would mean the two accounts were in the same time frame. So why do the BoM and the Bible not agree and why is it not spoken of in the Bible or by Jesus?

We read about Abraham being the father of a great nation. That nation is Isreal and we can speak with Jews today; they are spoken of in the news every day. We do not speak with people from the Jared account. I have never even heard of them in my entire life. Why is it this supposedly great nation has died out? I say died out because unlike the nation of Israel, we never read Jesus speak of the Jared group, and his "Great People" are never once mentioned in the Bible. I just put this out for people to examine the evidence for themselves, and follow Acts 17:11 and search the Scriptures for themselves.

If the BoM is false and the Bible and God are true, then there is an eternal burning lake of fire, called the second death that awaits all the people who love lies and false gospels. If the BoM is a lie and you love the BoM and believe it to be a true and accurate account, then you love a lie and are promoting this lie and false gospel every time you try and convert people to follow it.

So I would simply challenge people to show how the lack of evidence for the BoM can be true and explain why the vast difference in the two accounts. Rick b

A Barge with Holes in it?

Below is a story found in the BoM, the book of Ether. We read in the story about How God spoke to Jared and Commended him to make boats (Barges). I want to focus on some problems with How God told Jared to make these barges, and focus on the problems with the barges them selves. First lets read the story.

The book of Ether chapter 2
16 And the Lord said: Go to work and build, after the manner of barges which ye have hitherto built. And it came to pass that the brother of Jared did go to work, and also his brethren, and built barges after the manner which they had built, according to the instructions of the Lord. And they were small, and they were light upon the water, even like unto the lightness of a fowl upon the water.

17 And they were built after a manner that they were exceedingly tight, even that they would hold water like unto a dish; and the bottom thereof was tight like unto a dish; and the sides thereof were tight like unto a dish; and the ends thereof were peaked; and the top thereof was tight like unto a dish; and the length thereof was the length of a tree; and the door thereof, when it was shut, was tight like unto a dish.

18 And it came to pass that the brother of Jared cried unto the Lord, saying: O Lord, I have performed the work which thou hast commanded me, and I have made the barges according as thou hast directed me.

19 And behold, O Lord, in them there is no light; whither shall we steer? And also we shall perish, for in them we cannot breathe, save it is the air which is in them; therefore we shall perish.

20 And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood.

21 And it came to pass that the brother of Jared did so, according as the Lord had commanded.

22 And he cried again unto the Lord saying: O Lord, behold I have done even as thou hast commanded me; and I have prepared the vessels for my people, and behold there is no light in them. Behold, O Lord, wilt thou suffer that we shall cross this great water in darkness?

23 And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: What will ye that I should do that ye may have light in your vessels? For behold, ye cannot have windows, for they will be dashed in pieces; neither shall ye take fire with you, for ye shall not go by the light of fire.

24 For behold, ye shall be as a whale in the midst of the sea; for the mountain waves shall dash upon you. Nevertheless, I will bring you up again out of the depths of the sea; for the winds have gone forth out of my mouth, and also the drains and the floods have I sent forth.

25 And behold, I prepare you against these things; for ye cannot cross this great deep save I prepare you against the waves of the sea, and the winds which have gone forth, and the floods which shall come. Therefore what will ye that I should prepare for you that ye may have light when ye are swallowed up in the depths of the sea?

Now lets read the account in the Bible about Noah and the ark he was told to build.

14 Make yourself an ark of gopherwood; make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and outside with pitch.

15 And this is how you shall make it: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, its width fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits.

16 You shall make a window for the ark, and you shall finish it to a cubit from above; and set the door of the ark in its side. You shall make it with lower, second, and third decks.

17 And behold, I Myself am bringing floodwaters on the earth, to destroy from under heaven all flesh in which is the breath of life; everything that is on the earth shall die.

18 But I will establish My covenant with you; and you shall go into the ark--you, your sons, your wife, and your sons' wives with you.

19 And of every living thing of all flesh you shall bring two of every sort into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female.

20 Of the birds after their kind, of animals after their kind, and of every creeping thing of the earth after its kind, two of every kind will come to you to keep them alive.

21 And you shall take for yourself of all food that is eaten, and you shall gather it to yourself; and it shall be food for you and for them."

22 Thus Noah did; according to all that God commanded him, so he did.

In the Bible, when we read the account Given to Noah by God on how to build the ark, we find great detail, How many floors, the lenght of the ark, the kind of wood used, It HAS A WINDOW, a food supply Etc.

It would appear in the Book of Mormon, God is not as smart as in the Bible. First off, According to the BoM, in Ether 3:1 we read, Jared and his crew were told to make EIGHT BOATS, 1 And it came to pass that the brother of Jared, (now the number of the vessels which had been prepared was eight).

First off, for me, I would ask the simple question of, Why not just make one big barge that could fit everyone. I thought families were forever? If they are, why would it be so hard to keep a few people in one boat.

The Account given in the BoM we read, that Jared showed lack of faith by saying to the Lord, we wont be able to breath because of lack of air. We wont be able to see because of no light and we cannot steer.

I read in the Bible, God supplied Food, God never told noah to steer the Ark, We can assume God guided it and protected the ark, We read in the Bible, that there were great upheavals because of earthquakes and great destruction upon the earth, it was more than just rain falling for 40 days. God clearly protected Noah, why not Jared and his family?

Why is it, the Plans for Noah's ark were not the same for Jared's? The thing that really gets me, and in my mind, portrays God as being Stupid, is the issue of, We have no Air in the barge's. So God tells Jared, put a hole in the Top of the barge and the Bottom of the barge, Then put plugs in the holes. When you need air, pull out a plug to receive air.

20 And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood.

Lets examine just how crazy this really appears. This defy's logic, yet many people sadly believe this and except this as Gods Holy Word. It would stand to reason, if your standing up on the Floor, and you look down and see a plug, you won't want to pull it, because it would make sense the bottom of the barge is in the water. So you would want to pull the top one, But we read in verse 20, that if you pull the plug and water comes in, put the plug back in so the barge won't fill with water and sink.

If you pull the top plug, and water comes in then this would imply, your completely under water, If you need a plug on the bottom and the top, this implies you are being tossed all around, this would mean also you turn completely over, this means you did a 180 degree turn. Just imagine if you did that a few times, People would be seriously hurt. You cannot roll over in a car many times and never get a scratch. If God really did say, put a plug in the top and bottom, it shows He knew you would be rolling over, If God really did say, if you pull the plug and water comes in, then put the plug back in to stop the water, this means He knew you would be under water.

This tells me, God is not a loving God to allow this or he simply is not very smart. Then if your running out of air to breath, and only water comes in, then as the water fills the barge, even if it is only a foot or two of water, then this means, there is even less air to breath. If you needed the air to breath, and you pull the plug to obtain more air, then this means your running dangerously low, If only water comes in, then the odds of you dying from lack of air are increased greatly.

Then it adds the problem of, if you let in water one to many times, you simply will sink under water due to the water aboard the Barge. It also begs the question of, If the Barges are as light as a fowl upon the water, I don't recall ever once hearing about any birds, ducks or any other types of water fowl, simply just sinking into the water. So why did or do the barges go under water even for just a few minutes?

Now in verse 23, The lord tells jared You cannot have a window, lest it gets dashed to pieces. Well then why did Noah's ark have a window? Did God not understand this whole idea of windows on the ark breaking? As near as I can tell, The ark's window was noting more than a hole cut out with a board covering it, then they simply lift the board and the let the dove out or later the raven out. God told Jared, he could not have Fire on board. Well this fire would only burn up the air supply, this would cause them to pull the plug out more often, resulting in greater destruction of the barge. The other problem with the lack of air, is without air you will pass out never to wake up again.

Last but not least, we read in verse 24-25, God seems to understand that they will go under the water, And God states He will take care of them. Well if he can take care of them, why does He give lousy barge plans, and appear to be so stupid. Just my thoughts. Rick b

Are Mormon's Christians?

My next Topic is a reply to Wer62 (Ed's) Topic of, ARE MORMON'S CHRISTIAN.

First let me give the Link to Ed's topic for people to read Ed's Topic. I want people to read his topic and think for themselves. First Ed quotes

Acts 11: 26
26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

Ed quotes Acts 11:26. But here is a problem Ed either was not aware of or did not address. We read in the BoM, Supposedly the Most correct Book ever Written. And According to A of F 8, it is above the Bible as being MORE ACCURATE than the Bible. Any way we read in

Alma 46: 13, 15-16
13 And he fastened on his head-plate, and his breastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins; and he took the pole, which had on the end thereof his rent coat, (and he called it the title of liberty) and he bowed himself to the earth, and he prayed mightily unto his God for the blessings of liberty to rest upon his brethren, so long as there should a band of Christians remain to possess the land.

Alma 48: 10
10 And thus he was preparing to support their liberty, their lands, their wives, and their children, and their peace, and that they might live unto the Lord their God, and that they might maintain that which was called by their enemies the cause of Christians.

Ok, First off, notice in these verses they use the Word Christian This is a problem, if the Book of Acts is to be true, Why? In my copy of the BoM dated 1920 Down the bottom of the page, it dates these happenings to be Both BC 72 AND 73 If they were called Christians After the death and resurrection of Christ, how Could this occurrence of the Word Christian, take place before Christ was around?

Now lets look at what the word Christian first meant.

Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary - christian
The name given by the Greeks or Romans, probably in reproach, to the followers
of Jesus. It was first used at Antioch. The names by which the disciples were
known among themselves were "brethren," "the faithful," "elect," "saints,"
"believers." But as distinguishing them from the multitude without, the name
"Christian" came into use, and was universally accepted. This name occurs but
three times in the New Testament (Acts 11:26; 26:28; 1 Pet. 4:16).
Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary

And Wikipedia:

"Christian" was at first a derogatory term meaning "Christ-like ones" related to persecution, but early Christians were taught by their leaders to bear that name proudly. Previously, they had no specific name for their faith, and so they simply referred to it as "the way".

Now if we look back through the Bible, starting back in Genesis, We Find God created man and women.

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

No mention of them being Christians. They are believers in God. Then we read in Genesis 17:5

Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

God made Abraham the father of many Nations. Now we find we have Gentiles (Non-Jewish) People, and the Jewish people. Again no mention of CHRISTIANS. Their is only Jews and Gentiles. If the Gentiles convert to Judaism they are simply followers of God, Not Christians.

Once we get into the new testament, We find, before the Death of Christ, they still are simply followers of God. Then after the Resurrection, we find only 3 times is the word Christian used. And as I stated above, it first started out as a derogatory term. The 3 times we see the word Christian used are

Acts 11: 26
26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

Act 26:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

1Pe 4:16 Yet if [any man suffer] as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

.


Wer62 (ED) States on his blog, that this is what a Christian is

So what makes a Christian today? Simple, a commitment to follow Jesus Christ! This is not disqualified in the LDS Church and in fact the LDS Church follows closer to the Early Church in its followings of Christ and his Church then most protestant Churches today.

So According to Ed's definition and the Dictionary definition is this what a Christian is? Well the bible does not define the word/term Christian. First off, we know it was a derogatory term. Then their is only 3 verses using the word Christian. Acts 26:6 Simply states they were first Called Christian. This does not define the word for us.

Acts 26:28 the King Agrippa said to paul, you almost persuadest me to be a Christian. You could take this to mean a follower of Christ. But still this does not define the word, It does not say, THIS IS THE MEANING OF A CHRISTIAN. Neither does 1 peter 4:16.

Now, lets look again ad something Ed Said:

in fact the LDS Church follows closer to the Early Church in its followings of Christ and his Church then most protestant Churches today.

First lets look at a few verse we find in the Bible.

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Ok, Paul here states that there is ANOTHER GOSPEL, Mormonism teaches this "Other" Gospel.

I find it really funny, Mormons can call themselves "Christian" Even though we clearly have vastly different beliefes, Yet the LDS refuse to call the FLDS, RLDS or other LDS off-shoot groups Mormons. Why is that? article about FLDS not being Mormons


The FLDS and RLDS and other off shoots of LDS have closer beliefes to those of the LDS than the LDS and Christians, Example, Christians do not believe in the other 3 standerd works like the BoM, D and C or the Pearl of great price. The FLDS believe the Teaching of D and C 132 not the Christians, and the teaching of D and C 132 is in the D and C which Mormons "LDS" believe.

So why is it with such great differences in beliefes the Mormons can say they are Christians, But the FLDS and RLDS, with closer beliefes are not Mormon? I did a topic called what if On my blog. I pointed out how If I as a christian were to dress as a mormon missionary and preach my beliefes the LDS would get mad and say I am not a real LDS member, yet LDS can call them selves Christian, and teach way different views to what I believe, Why is this? Rick B