Tuesday, September 25, 2007

Baptism of The Dead

The reason Mormons do genealogical studies is so they can do proxy baptism, sealings, ordinations, endowments and marriages in the temple for the their dead relatives to help exalt or save them.

LDS use I Cor. 15:29 to try to show that their concept of proxy baptism is Biblical. It says, "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead?" Paul's main subject in I Cor. 15 was not baptism for the dead but "resurrection of the body." He was not giving a commandment to baptize by proxy in verse 29, but he was arguing for a belief in the resurrection of the body. History indicates that there were sects which practiced baptism for the dead. Paul may be referring to them when he said, "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead?"


Talmage said that we can become "vicarious saviors" of the dead (A. of F., p. 152). But, if that is true, Jesus Christ is not the only mediator between God and men as I Tim. 2:5 declares. Furthermore, Heb. 9:27 says, "It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment." And, II Cor. 6:2 declares, "Behold now is the accepted time: Behold now is the day of salvation." The Bible nowhere teaches that mankind has another chance for salvation after death.



LDS use I Peter 3:19-20 to support their doctrine of salvation for the dead. It says Christ "preached unto the spirits in prison," but it does not say that He preached the gospel to them as LDS claim. Nor does the text say any spirits were saved as a result of that preaching or that anyone was baptized in their behalf. Such an interpretation ignores the context which indicates that Christ's preaching was a proclamation of judgment. Mormons also use I Peter 4:6 to teach salvation for the dead. It says, "For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead."


Then those who did have the law and rejected it, should not have proxy work done for them according to President Joseph Fielding Smith. He said, "The work for the dead is not intended for those who had every opportunity to receive it, who had it taught to them, and who then refused to receive it, or had not interest enough to attend to these ordinances when they were living (D. of S., Vol. II, p. 184).


If baptism is not needed by those without the law as the B. of M. says, and proxy temple work "is not intended for those who had every opportunity to receive" the LDS gospel but refused it as Joseph Fielding Smith said, then for whom are LDS doing proxy work? Mormon missionaries who "compass sea and land to make one proselyte" (Matt. 23:15) are also wasting their time if they go to people "without the law," since the B. of M. says those people are already "alive in Christ," (Moroni 8:22).


Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luke16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Luke 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence.
Luke 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luke 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luke 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luke 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.



Notice what is both said and not said.

What is said is, I cannot cross the gulf to you, and you cannot come over here. The Rich man wanted water, Water is a symbol in the Bible for life eternal, Jesus gives us water gushing up out of our bellies into eternal life, If we drink From His well we will never thirst again.

What is said also is, the Rich man saying, send people to my brothers so they will avoid coming here, Abraham says, they have the Word of God. If we cannot trust the Word were in trouble.

What is never said is, I will or someone will do a proxy baptism for you and then send spirits here to give you the gospel again and you will be free. Plus is Abraham could speak to him, why not just have him share the Gospel right then and their?

The last thing I want to point out is this, Not one place in the entire Bible to we read about the purpose or one of the purposes is for baptizing for the dead. Read the OT, It is clear what the purpose of the temple was. Rick b

Monday, September 17, 2007

Achieving Exaltation part 2

Lets break down part 2 now.

We are taught:

He commands us all to receive certain ordinances:
The HE is God the father. Does HE really teach this in the Bible? We are taught HE teaches we must:


1. We must be baptized and confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ.
2. We must receive the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
3. We must receive the temple endowment.
4. We must be married for time and eternity.


This is very simple on these 4 parts, Show me chapter and verse from the Bible where it teaches this.

Then we are taught
In addition to receiving the required ordinances, the Lord commands all of us to--

1. Love and worship God.
2. Love our neighbor.
3. Repent of our wrongdoings.
4. Live the law of chastity.
5. Pay honest tithes and offerings.
6. Be honest in our dealings with others and with the Lord.
7. Speak the truth always.
8. Obey the Word of Wisdom.
9. Search out our kindred dead and perform the saving ordinances of the gospel for them.
10. Keep the Sabbath day holy.
11. Attend our Church meetings as regularly as possible so we can renew our baptismal covenants by partaking of the sacrament.
12. Love our family members and strengthen them in the ways of the Lord.
13. Have family and individual prayers every day.
14. Honor our parents.
15. Teach the gospel to others by word and example.
16. Study the scriptures.
17. Listen to and obey the inspired words of the prophets of the Lord.


I've read the Bible Cover to cover many times, I do not recall ever reading these commandments:
4. Live the law of chastity. 8. Obey the Word of Wisdom.
9. Search out our kindred dead and perform the saving ordinances of the gospel for them. 11. Attend our Church meetings as regularly as possible so we can renew our baptismal covenants by partaking of the sacrament.
12. Love our family members and strengthen them in the ways of the Lord.
13. Have family and individual prayers every day.
17. Listen to and obey the inspired words of the prophets of the Lord.


If I must do these things in order to be saved or exalted please show me Chapter and verse. Seems pretty simple thing to ask. Then to say I must obey the sabbath, then let me ask this, Why did Jesus break the Sabbath many times over and give an example of How King David and his men did it, and how the High Priests in the OT did it every Sabbath. Jesus was Clear, the Sabbath is for man, not man for the Sabbath.

Then as far as these two goes,
15. Teach the gospel to others by word and example.
16. Study the scriptures.


What if your on your death bed and cannot do this? And the Bible only tells us to preach the Gospel, it does not say, do it by example. So please show me from the Scripture if I am wrong, if I am not wrong, then how can you be sure your view is correct if you cannot prove this from the Bible? Rick b

Tuesday, September 11, 2007

Achieving Exaltation

All of this info about Exaltation is taken from the Book Gospel principles chapter 47.


What Is Exaltation?

Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life God lives. He lives in great glory. He is perfect. He possesses all knowledge and all wisdom. He is the Father of spirit children. He is a creator. We can become like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation.

If we prove faithful to the Lord, we will live in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom of heaven. We will become exalted, just like our Heavenly Father. Exaltation is the greatest gift that Heavenly Father can give his children (see D&C 14:7).



Under the "what is Exaltation" heading we find it teaching that God IS A Creator. This implies more than one creator or more than one god, the Bible refutes this. Look over my topic called gods

Then it says, He is the Father of spirit children. The Bible does not teach that God births Children, it does not teach He is married, Many people from Non-believers to various religions teach we are ALL children of God. Sadly this proves people do not know the Bible. The Bible very clearly teaches we are all Gods creation, but we are not all Gods Children.

Here the Bible teaches Not every one is a Child of God, some are Children of the Devil, Jesus even says, Your father the Devil.

John 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

1John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.


Requirements for Exaltation

The time to fulfill the requirements for exaltation is now (see Alma 34:32-34). President Joseph Fielding Smith said, "In order to obtain the exaltation we must accept the gospel and all its covenants; and take upon us the obligations which the Lord has offered; and walk in the light and understanding of the truth; and 'live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God' " (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:43).

To be exalted, we first must place our faith in Jesus Christ and then endure in that faith to the end of our lives. Our faith in him must be such that we repent of our sins and obey his commandments.

He commands us all to receive certain ordinances:

1. We must be baptized and confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ.
2. We must receive the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
3. We must receive the temple endowment.
4. We must be married for time and eternity.

In addition to receiving the required ordinances, the Lord commands all of us to--

1. Love and worship God.
2. Love our neighbor.
3. Repent of our wrongdoings.
4. Live the law of chastity.
5. Pay honest tithes and offerings.
6. Be honest in our dealings with others and with the Lord.
7. Speak the truth always.
8. Obey the Word of Wisdom.
9. Search out our kindred dead and perform the saving ordinances of the gospel for them.
10. Keep the Sabbath day holy.
11. Attend our Church meetings as regularly as possible so we can renew our baptismal covenants by partaking of the sacrament.
12. Love our family members and strengthen them in the ways of the Lord.
13. Have family and individual prayers every day.
14. Honor our parents.
15. Teach the gospel to others by word and example.
16. Study the scriptures.
17. Listen to and obey the inspired words of the prophets of the Lord.

Finally, each of us needs to receive the Holy Ghost and learn to follow his direction in our individual lives.


Above it tells us to read Alma 34:32-34, because it claims to tell us (The time to fulfill the requirements for exaltation is now) This is what Alma says:
32 For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors.

33 And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed.

34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.


This does not say one thing about how to be exaltated.

Now we shall breakdown the rest by section and ask, can you really do this.

LDS teach
Our faith in him must be such that we repent of our sins and obey his commandments.


That great and all, but lets add to that
The LDS Church manual Gospel Principles states, "To make our repentance complete we must keep the commandments of the Lord" (1992 ed., p.125).


So unless we keep the commandments of God we are not fully repentant. This is a serious problem because people on their death bed cannot be saved. And we read in the Book The miracle of forgivness



Spencer W. Kimball, the 12th President of the LDS Church, declared, "There is one crucial test of repentance. This is abandonment of the sin" (The Miracle of Forgiveness, p.163.

12th President Spencer W. Kimball said, "Christ became perfect through overcoming. Only as we overcome shall we become perfect and move toward godhood. As I have indicated previously, the time to do this is now, in mortality" (The Miracle of Forgiveness, p.210).

Repenting of only some sins never results in complete forgiveness.
Page 212 of The Miracle of Forgiveness reads, "…incomplete repentance never brought complete forgiveness" (12th President Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, p.212).


Can you really do as he teaches? I will review the rest in my next post. Rick b