I happen to be writing via snail mail with a MM, He liked me so much that we meet 3 times face to face, after he had to move on he gave me his address to write him.
Anyway we were talking about the temple, so I wrote this and sent it to him.
What must I do to be saved?
Paul and Silas were in Jail, The Jailer came to them and said:
Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
The response Paul gave was simple, Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved. Nothing more to do.
Now that is something I can do and live with, But if your a Mormon, It simply is not that easy. Their are 3 different heavens you could go to, and Bruce Mc said anything less than Exaltation (3rd heaven) is damnation. So unless you enter into the 3rd heaven your damned, your saved in the sense that your not in hell or for LDS, outer darkness, but your still damned.
Here is what Mormonism teaches you must do in order to be saved.
According to Mormonism the Temple is of the utmost importance, But they seem to forget to tell you what you must do to be able to enter, I say that they seem to forget because, I have spoken with many Mormon Missionarys who tell me I can enter the temple, but never tell me about what I must first do. So they give you the false Idea that you simply can walk in to the temple.
Prophet Spencer Kimball Achieving a Celestial Marriage manual pg 30 makes it very clear we must do certain things to enter the temple to be saved. He gives a list of 6 things called (TEMPLE RECOMMEND INTERVIEW). it says When you are interviewed for a temple recommend you will be asked about,
1. Church attendance
2. Payment of tithes and offerings
3. Loyalty to Church leaders.
4. Moral cleanliness.
5. overall faithfulness and worthiness.
6. Obedience to the Word of Wisdom.
In Gospel Principles pg 125: WE MUST KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD. To make our repentance complete we must keep the commandments of the Lord (see D and C 1:32). we are not fully repentant if we do not pay tithes or keep the sabbath day holy or obey the word of wisdom. we are not repentant if we don't sustain the authorities of the church and don't love the lord and our fellow man.
Add to that also pg 241 Eternal marriage is ESSENTIAL FOR EXALTATION. Our exaltation depends on marriage. Then over on pg 242 it says "and in order to obtain the highest, a man MUST ENTER INTO THIS ORDER OF THE PRIESTHOOD [MEANING THE NEW AND EVERLASTING COVENANT OF MARRIAGE];" "and if he does not, he cannot obtain it" (D and C 131:1-3)
Boy, I think I would rather follow Paul's simple teaching of, believe on the Lord Jesus, Not the LDS view of You must do all this first. I have pointed out to people before also, what if you convert to Mormonism, then die or get killed before doing all this. Plus in order to enter the temple, you must first spend one year simply being an LDS member, then after one year you can try to enter the temple.
Some of us will not have the year plus we need, so can you be sure your even saved? I know for a fact I am saved, what about you? I want to add also that D and C 131:6 teaches: It is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance. Are you ignorant of these thing?
He wrote me back, and part of his letter he said, He felt I thought entering the temple was to much of a challenge and that was to bad. So below is my letter to him, It focus is on temples.
Ok, in your letter to me you said you felt I thought entering the temple is a challenge. It is not so much that it is a challenge, but that you must enter it to be saved into the 3rd heaven. Sadly not many will be able to do that. Then the Bible does not teach that either.
Now as far as the temple goes from the Bible here is a rough breakdown. When Adam and Eve were created their was no temple. Then after they sinned and were kicked out of the garden their was no temple, so how were they saved?
It is believed from the time of Adam and Eve till God flooded the world and destroyed it, it was about 2,000 years. They figure this from the ages of what people lived. Anyway, no temples at all are ever mentioned. So if any part of our salvation come from entering the temple we have a problem.
Then after the flood up until the time Abram was called Abraham their was no temple and no Jews, their was simply the human race. After Abraham had Isaac, Isaac takes a bride, Isaac has Children, one of the kids is called Jacob. Jacob is a liar and deceiver and over in Genesis Chapter 32 he wrestles with God, and God after the Match renames Jacob, Israel. As of yet no temple, then we jump ahead to the Book of Exodus.
In here we Find Moses born and after about 80 years he goes and sets his people free. Now we find in Exodus chapter 11, The 10th and final plague. The reason why this is important is because, first off their is still no temple to save us. Then we find that Jews who did not put Blood upon the door and the sides, which formed a Cross by the way and Jesus was the lamb slain for us, but yet the Egyptians who were with the Jews under the blood were saved.
So we find some of both killed and saved. We are saved by the Blood of Christ, both Jews and gentiles. Then after the Jews were let go into the wilderness some of the Egyptians went with them. Now after Moses and his people were set free and allowed to go, the Pharaoh changed his mind and went after them. So after Moses and everyone crossed the red sea then they were given laws and rules to follow.
Even though God gave laws and rules to follow we are not saved by them. Remember their were people who lived and died before the laws and rules were given. And these laws and rules were given to the Jews, not the gentiles, so if the laws save us, and they were not given to gentiles (Non-Jews) how were they saved. Then if you read through the Book of Exodus, can anyone really say, I follow every one of those laws and rules?
Now starting in Exodus Chapter 25 we find the Sanctuary and the Tabernacle, but remember this is not the temple and not just anyone can enter it. Now I have been to the Fair LDS board and spoke with many LDS over their, some have told me that they lie about Keeping the WoW and keeping all that is required to enter the temple, because they want to get into the temple, Well if you now jump over to Leviticus Chapter 10 we read,
Lev 10:1 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not.
Lev 10:2 And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD.
Lev 10:3 Then Moses said unto Aaron, This [is it] that the LORD spake, saying, I will be sanctified in them that come nigh me, and before all the people I will be glorified. And Aaron held his peace.
Now we see God killing these two for not Doing what God commanded them to do, If this were still true today and God did this, many LDS who claim to be true Christians would be dead. Because they bring strange fire into the temple and since they lie to get into the temple, they go in as liars and sinners and do not regard God as holy. To add to what I just said, read,
Lev 10:8 And the LORD spake unto Aaron, saying,
Lev 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: [it shall be] a statute for ever throughout your generations:
Lev 10:10 And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean;
Many LDS who lie to enter the temple lie because they want to Drink and also enter the temple. I honestly have no problem with a person wanting to drink a glass of wine or beer, But according to God, they should die, but yet they don't, so this shows God's great love and grace. Plus it shows us that the temple does not save us, because as I said before, their was no temple and as of yet their is no temple.
Then read the entire chapter 15 in Leviticus, it talks about men and women who have a bodily discharge, in other words Bodily fluids from the male Penis or from the women, their can be many reason why this happens, but the real question is this, we know it happens even today to faithful LDS members, Maybe through Sex with a married partner, or through self pleasure or sickness, how ever it comes, Do the LDS follow these rules Given? They might not openly admit and say, Hey I'm unclean, I cannot enter the temple today, I had sexual intercourse with my wife or was lusting and fell into sin of masturbation, and we will never really know, but since it is openly spoken of in the Bible we should be able to openly speak about it and live by this law. Honestly I doubt LDS follow these laws.
Now we read in Numbers the placement of the tribes, the thing about they way they were placed is this. It formed a Cross, so when God looked down from heaven upon the tribes He saw a Cross. He knew He was going to be sending His Son to die on a cross. This reminds me, we see the cross all though the Bible. When Abraham went with his son Isaac to offer him up as a burnt offering, we see God doing this with His son Jesus. Isaac told his dad, their is not an offering, and Abraham said back to Isaac, Gen 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
Notice he said (God will provide himself a lamb). the word FOR is not in their, God was that Lamb that Died for us, this again shows we are not saved by the temple or works, we are saved by the blood of Jesus. Now we read in the book of Leviticus chapter 16
Lev 16:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses after the death of the two sons of Aaron, when they offered before the LORD, and died;
Lev 16:2 And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy [place] within the vail before the mercy seat, which [is] upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.
Lev 16:3 Thus shall Aaron come into the holy [place]: with a young bullock for a sin offering, and a ram for a burnt offering.
Now I know God is speaking to Moses about Aaron, but this method applies to all who enter to see God. I also know this is not the temple either, but Not just anyone could go before God, and there is no list given of a temple recommend to enter either, so again, how are we saved by the temple?
Move to Chapter 21, you can read that for your self, but the basic view of it is this, "Regulations for conduct of priests" Are the LDS "Priests" or "Priest holders" Following these rules "Laws" Given by God?
Now when we move to the Book of Numbers, God set up how the tribes are to be laid out when they are resting and waiting to move, I sent a photo of that, it is the form of a Cross when God is up in heaven looking Down upon it, He sees the Cross is yet future and that is what is to come.
Not the temple, but the Cross. Now you will love this, in the Book of Deuteronomy we find what is called Cities of refuge. These were set up so that if a person killed another by shear accident or "manslaughter" He could flee to the City of refuge, and he was allowed to enter and live in their and the avenger of blood was not allowed to enter and kill him. If this person leaves the City he is fair game and can be killed, but if the high priest of the City dies a natural death, then the person can leave the city free and clear. Now here is why this is so cool, it is a type of Christ. Jesus Died on the Cross, but guess what, We put Him their, it was us who killed him, but He "Jesus" says father forgive them for they know not what they do, So Jesus was saying it was an Accident, "manslaughter" And in Hebrews we read He is our high priest who lives forever.
So if He lives in us, and we in Him, He is our city of refuge and we cannot be harmed by the avenger of blood. But if we step out of His protection we can be harmed. Cool, Huh. Now we do not see a temple until King David wants to Build it, But God will not allow Him to build it, but His Son King Solomon built it. Then after he builds a temple, not just anyone can enter, not even the Jews could simply just walk in, and Like the LDS temple where you have to be asked questions to see if you are worthy to enter, that was not the case with the temples for the Jews, and the temples were not created to attain any form of salvation.
Now that we get to the New Testament we never read about Jesus entering the temple and brining people to it. After Jesus crucified the veil of the temple was torn in two, that was a massive feat to happen, the say that it was a cloth that was about 18 inches thick, and would take something like 20 or more oxen pulling one way, while that many pulled the other way. The other reason that was a big deal is because, we no longer need to enter the temple.
The only temple at the time was destroyed just as Jesus said it would be. Then after Jesus goes up into heaven, we never read about any of his followers entering a temple or re-building one, From the time Jesus died and rose again till know is about 2,000 years, thats a long time with no temple if one really is required to be saved. Take care my friend and study the scriptures and give serious thought to what I said. Remember Acts 17:11
Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
He has since wrote me back, sadly he avoided the question all together and Changed the subject. Rick b
Wednesday, October 24, 2007
Monday, October 08, 2007
LDS Church teaches, Please do not think, let us do it for you. PT 3
Author said:
The Problem with this is, the Bible tells us in, Jer 17:9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?
So if our hearts can lead us astray, why do we want to base Truth upon feelings? Then the Bible teaches us to Search the Scriptures, Acts 17:11, We never read any place in the Bible to base truth upon Feelings, we are told to seek and search.
Then the author says:
I really doubt what he just said, It seems they do hate honest Inquiry, They frowen upon the LDS people reading or looking at So Called "Anti-Mormon" anything, If it is all one sided how can you be honest?
Then the Author says
It is possible some LDS critics are mocking and trying to destroy the Church, but that is not the case with every one, The Bible Teaches their is a real Hell and Eternal damnation, and if we say, well I might offended a Person for saying I believe that they are wrong, and then say nothing, their Blood will be on my hands. We read many Accounts in the Bible of false Prophets and teachers leading others to their death, We really need to stand up and search out the truth and share it.
The Author says:
If his plea really is that they are searching for the Truth, then he should be open to look at both Sides, other wise it looks as if he really is not looking for truth.
The Author said:
The History can and will expouse the Truth.
The Author said:
If he really seeks the truth, then he would openly look at the evidence given, I said before, I post scanned copies with added context or pull out the books if I am speaking face to face with someone, But many times Mormons tell me when I show them flaws in and from their own books, that since I am a so called Anti Mormon, their not allowed to view them. This is the teaching they get from the People who write this Article, this tells me the Author is lying and really does not seek the truth.
The Author said:
He is Correct, truth will prevail, but He says, A knowledge of that truth comes by effort and study But yet he says, do not read Anti mormon Books, the majority of Anti Mormon Quotes come from the LDS sources, so unless Mormonism is really Anti Mormon, they should look at the quotes, otherwise, are they really looking for truth?
The Author said:
Like I said, this person contradicts himself, first he says, do not read Anti Mormon Books, but the says, search the truth out. You cannot search for truth if you only look at one side of the story. And if the BoM is false, then it cannot help you.
The Author says:
How can you tell your friend "The Truth" and say, the Anti-Mormon Book bothers you, if you never read it. That is being Dishonest to say, it is lies and flawed if you do not know what is in it. I hear LDS saying, I cannot claim the BoM is false if I never read it. I agree, so I read it.
The Author said:
All I can say is, if he feels Anti Mormon Books are Disturbing, please write me and tell what what exactly is wrong, we can talk.
The Author said:
I add more for context and Buy LDS books because I am a seeker of the truth, so this guy is clueless to say such things.
The Author said:
You bear your testimony, I bear mine, they cancel each other out, Big Deal. I prayed, you prayed, we both claim God told us we were right and the other was wrong, this is not evidence. The Bible says, search the Scriptures, as a matter of fact, the BoM says, search the scriptures also, read, Alma 14:1,17:2,33:2
The author said:
The A of F sounds good, but what if the BoM is wrong and false, do you really want to gamble on eternal Hell simply because you refused to look at both sides? If you refuse and are wrong, then you have no one to blame but yourself, and you will regret it for all of eterinty.
The Author said:
Their is no real benfit from Listing to false Prophets and teachers, Add to that, when ever the LDS Prophets or so called Apostles cannot agree with each other and I point this stuff out to the LDS member, I always hear this, It was their mere Opinion, they were not speaking for the Lord, or Unless it is one of the 4 standerd works, it is not Offical Church Doctrine. So what benfit can I gain if you guys cannot agree? As a matter of fact I even did a topic about that, here.
Rick b
Think of how you feel when you read the Book of Mormon, pray, or bear your testimony. How do those feelings compare with the feelings that come from reading anti-Mormon literature? Which is guiding you to the truth?
The Problem with this is, the Bible tells us in, Jer 17:9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?
So if our hearts can lead us astray, why do we want to base Truth upon feelings? Then the Bible teaches us to Search the Scriptures, Acts 17:11, We never read any place in the Bible to base truth upon Feelings, we are told to seek and search.
Then the author says:
We’re not against honest inquiry in the Church. We welcome it. The Apostle Paul said, “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21). The Prophet Joseph Smith said, “One of the grand fundamental principles of ‘Mormonism’ is to receive truth, let it come from whence it may” (History of the Church, 5:499). As we search for truth in Church teachings and history, we should remember that it is faith in Christ that helps us to “lay hold upon every good thing” (see Moroni 7:15–25). And we should keep everything in its proper perspective and context. President Gordon B. Hinckley has said:
I really doubt what he just said, It seems they do hate honest Inquiry, They frowen upon the LDS people reading or looking at So Called "Anti-Mormon" anything, If it is all one sided how can you be honest?
Then the Author says
“We seem to have a host of critics. Some appear intent on trying to destroy us. They mock that which is sacred. They belittle that which we call divine. Some have said that we are trapped by our history, others have worked with great diligence seeking flaws in our early leaders. …
It is possible some LDS critics are mocking and trying to destroy the Church, but that is not the case with every one, The Bible Teaches their is a real Hell and Eternal damnation, and if we say, well I might offended a Person for saying I believe that they are wrong, and then say nothing, their Blood will be on my hands. We read many Accounts in the Bible of false Prophets and teachers leading others to their death, We really need to stand up and search out the truth and share it.
The Author says:
“My plea is that as we continue our search for truth, particularly we of the Church, that we look for strength and goodness rather than weakness and foibles in those who did so great a work in their time. …
If his plea really is that they are searching for the Truth, then he should be open to look at both Sides, other wise it looks as if he really is not looking for truth.
The Author said:
“… I hope that we will cultivate an attitude of looking for positive elements which lead to growth and enthusiasm. We are not trapped by our history. That history contains the foundation of this work. …
The History can and will expouse the Truth.
The Author said:
“I do not fear truth. I welcome it. But I wish all of my facts to be in their proper context” (“The Continuing Pursuit of Truth,” Ensign, Apr. 1986, 4–6).
If he really seeks the truth, then he would openly look at the evidence given, I said before, I post scanned copies with added context or pull out the books if I am speaking face to face with someone, But many times Mormons tell me when I show them flaws in and from their own books, that since I am a so called Anti Mormon, their not allowed to view them. This is the teaching they get from the People who write this Article, this tells me the Author is lying and really does not seek the truth.
The Author said:
“The present effort of trying to find some other explanation for the organization of the Church, for the origin of the Book of Mormon, and for the priesthood with its keys and powers will be similar to other anti-Mormon fads which have come and blossomed and faded. Truth will prevail. A knowledge of that truth comes by effort and study, yes. But it comes primarily as a gift from God to those who seek in faith.”
President Gordon B. Hinckley, “Lord, Increase Our Faith,” Ensign, Nov. 1987, 52–53.
Readers
He is Correct, truth will prevail, but He says, A knowledge of that truth comes by effort and study But yet he says, do not read Anti mormon Books, the majority of Anti Mormon Quotes come from the LDS sources, so unless Mormonism is really Anti Mormon, they should look at the quotes, otherwise, are they really looking for truth?
The Author said:
Reading anti-Mormon literature could deceive your friend, even if he or she has a strong testimony. The best way to know how to respond to opposing views is to study the Book of Mormon. I know it is the word of God, and after all, it was written for our day! With the Holy Ghost to guide us as we read the Book of Mormon and other scriptures, we can learn to recognize deception and can have the Spirit to guide us when we may need to respond.
Alicia M., 18, Utah
Like I said, this person contradicts himself, first he says, do not read Anti Mormon Books, but the says, search the truth out. You cannot search for truth if you only look at one side of the story. And if the BoM is false, then it cannot help you.
The Author says:
Just tell your friend the truth, that you find that literature disturbing. If he or she is a true friend, he or she will have no problem with it. Stick with your feeling of not wanting to read it. If you do read it, it could open up a window of doubt. There are plenty of books (like True to the Faith) that have been written through inspiration. Pick up one of those so that you may know how to respond to questions.
Brian P., 16, Arizona
How can you tell your friend "The Truth" and say, the Anti-Mormon Book bothers you, if you never read it. That is being Dishonest to say, it is lies and flawed if you do not know what is in it. I hear LDS saying, I cannot claim the BoM is false if I never read it. I agree, so I read it.
The Author said:
On my mission I have come across a lot of anti-Mormon literature. It is disturbing. I have seen honest seekers of truth fall away because of it. If you want to learn how to answer people’s concerns, do two things: gain a strong testimony of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ, and know the doctrine by studying the scriptures. Then, when others come to you with concerns, you will have the power of the Holy Ghost to testify to you and to them of the truth.
Sister Holly Erikson, 23, Tennessee Nashville Mission
All I can say is, if he feels Anti Mormon Books are Disturbing, please write me and tell what what exactly is wrong, we can talk.
The Author said:
Anti-Mormon literature will be filled with scriptures or quotes that are taken out of context and twisted to serve the author’s purpose of filling people’s minds with doubt about the Church. The fact that you get an uneasy feeling when you read anti-Mormon literature should be proof enough. The best thing you can do to be prepared for questions is to be faithful and read the Book of Mormon daily. Also, most people who will ask you questions that come from the anti-Mormon literature are not interested in finding the gospel. They want you to argue with them so they can twist your words (see Alma 11).
Jenika W., 19, Washington
I add more for context and Buy LDS books because I am a seeker of the truth, so this guy is clueless to say such things.
The Author said:
One day I was talking to a friend, who is not a member of our church, and we almost got to the point where we started putting each other’s churches down, but I didn’t want it to get to that point, so I just bore my testimony and stopped. A few weeks later I got some pamphlets and magazines in the mail from her. I could have kept them so that I would know what some writers think about our church, but I didn’t. This experience made me want to be more prepared when things like this happen.
Alexandria M., 15, Oregon
You bear your testimony, I bear mine, they cancel each other out, Big Deal. I prayed, you prayed, we both claim God told us we were right and the other was wrong, this is not evidence. The Bible says, search the Scriptures, as a matter of fact, the BoM says, search the scriptures also, read, Alma 14:1,17:2,33:2
The author said:
What you read or watch has an effect on you. Part of the 13th article of faith says that “if there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.” I do not think reading anti-Mormon literature fits in the above statement. Plus you find the literature disturbing. That may be the Spirit sending you a message to stay away from this literature.
Martyn T., 22, Wakiso, Uganda
The A of F sounds good, but what if the BoM is wrong and false, do you really want to gamble on eternal Hell simply because you refused to look at both sides? If you refuse and are wrong, then you have no one to blame but yourself, and you will regret it for all of eterinty.
The Author said:
There is far greater benefit from searching the inspired words of prophets and apostles of the Lord, in the scriptures and Church magazines. That is when we receive the Spirit’s direction, not when we are immersed in the adversary’s filth.
Elder Calvin Oberly Jr., 24, New York New York South Mission
Their is no real benfit from Listing to false Prophets and teachers, Add to that, when ever the LDS Prophets or so called Apostles cannot agree with each other and I point this stuff out to the LDS member, I always hear this, It was their mere Opinion, they were not speaking for the Lord, or Unless it is one of the 4 standerd works, it is not Offical Church Doctrine. So what benfit can I gain if you guys cannot agree? As a matter of fact I even did a topic about that, here.
Rick b
LDS Church teaches, Please do not think, let us do it for you. PT 2
I will break part two down and add my own thoughts to it, if you have not read all of what the Q/A said please go back to part 1 and read it first. part 1
Here are a couple of things to remember about anti-Mormon material.
First, it would be a waste to spend a lot of time and energy reading it.
How is following Acts 17:11 a waste of time, to go along with acts 17:11 which says, They Searched the Scriptures to know if this was true, the BoM teaches the same thing, read Alma 14:1, 17:2,33:2 All say, Search the Scriptures. So if your An LDS and your BoM teaches to search the scriptures to know if something is true or not, then you simply cannot say something like Anti Mormon books are false with out first checking the facts. Then the other Mormon Scripture, the D and C says,
We so called anti Mormons try and convince people of the error of their ways, but then get called hateful, Lets post what the LDS prophet/president J.F.S Taught in the D of Salv. He said
He again we have the LDS PROPHET/PRESIDENT saying this to us, but when we Do as He said, we get called Hateful anti Mormon. Do the LDS even know He taught this? If So do they care?
Who cares? How does this prove the Books are wrong?
Some stuff has been brought up over and over but so what, I post on many boards that reach out to the LDS, and many questions I have asked go ignored and are never answered, I see many LDS who cannot answer honest questions, many Topics on my blog go ignored.
This might be true, but the sad thing about it is, the LDS will not pull out the Books quoted from by us and sit down and show the quote and explain why it is wrong. Example, I own the entire set of Journal Of Discourses, it teaches the Adam God Doctrine. Now When we point this out, the LDS will say, that is false and tell these younger LDS were lying, but will they pull out the JoD volume one and let the younger LDS member read it for him/herself and decide on their own? No they will not, So I scan it and post it here on my blog, that is being honest and helpful, I let people see both sides. I also never quote from a source I do not own.
So I can back up everything I say. Also Many LDS want to say us Anti-LDS are lying and dis-honest, But I have posted on many Blogs and websites where LDS have said I am lying or taking things out of context, no sooner do I ask for proof, they stop posting and you never hear from them again. I honestly do not know how those LDS members can live with the fact they are calling me a liar but in fact they knew they lied.
Here are some exact Quotes from LDS leaders, These are things Us Anti's use and quote from, but the LDS leaders or LDS scripture have spoken on these things, Please explain how these things are dis-honest criticizes of the Church and please come here and put them into the proper perspective for me.
Remember, this is only One Problem of many.
This next quote is a bunch of crap if I ever saw it.
I say it is a bunch of Crap because, Like I said and Quoted, the LDS PROPHET/PRESIDENT Said, if JS is a false Prophet he must be exposed. Then, Like things I quoted above are taken from what LDS leaders have said and taught, they are not Half Truth and quotes. I have posted this challange for others before, none have ever taken me up on it, or they tried and failed, Read my entire Blog and point out where I used a half truth or quoted a LDS prophet/leader in such a way as to lead someone astray by only posting a half quote to make it say something it did not. I tend to quote extra for evidence of not being accused of that. Then because the Above quote says, This latter group is often all too willing to rely on deception and dishonesty to achieve their goals. The literature they produce often uses lies or half-trutjavascript:void(0)hs; it distorts, sensationalizes, or misinterprets Church teachings and history;
Let me put forth more sayings from LDS leaders and LDS scripture.
All these Sayings/teachings are from LDS prophets, us so called Anti's are simply pointing this stuff out. Funny How were hateful, yet look what the LDS leaders said about Christians.
Now read in D and C 71:5-11 98:14,23-26 it says meet your enemy in public. If I am your enemy which I don't feel I am but if I am it says meet me in public to talk about this stuff. Jesus said love your enemy. D and C 66:7 68:1,9 go into the church's public or private to discuss this stuff. D and C 6:9-11 say convince us of our error if we have any. why do I get accused of being hateful for doing what the scriptures teach. now let me add this, would you agree it is good to listen to the Mormon prophets? if so, then I am.
I quote Orsan Pratt still pg 15. "we ask from you the same generosity--protect us in the exercise of our religious rights--CONVINCE US of our errors of doctrine, if we have any, by reason, by logical arguments, or by the word of god, and we will be ever grateful for the information, and you will ever have the pleasing reflection that you have been instruments in the hands of God redeeming your fellow beings from the darkness which you may see enveloping their minds".
I am just trying to look at Mormonism in a logical way and point out what I believe are problems. I find it interesting that Mormons of old were willing to tell others they were wrong or be open to talks. but it does not appear to be that way today. I hope this really makes you examine your faith. If you would like to talk privately off line you are more than welcome.
Part 3 will be next. Rick b
Here are a couple of things to remember about anti-Mormon material.
First, it would be a waste to spend a lot of time and energy reading it.
How is following Acts 17:11 a waste of time, to go along with acts 17:11 which says, They Searched the Scriptures to know if this was true, the BoM teaches the same thing, read Alma 14:1, 17:2,33:2 All say, Search the Scriptures. So if your An LDS and your BoM teaches to search the scriptures to know if something is true or not, then you simply cannot say something like Anti Mormon books are false with out first checking the facts. Then the other Mormon Scripture, the D and C says,
11 And if thou wilt inquire, thou shalt know mysteries which are great and marvelous; therefore thou shalt exercise thy gift, that thou mayest find out mysteries, that thou mayest bring many to the knowledge of the truth, yea, convince them of the error of their ways.
We so called anti Mormons try and convince people of the error of their ways, but then get called hateful, Lets post what the LDS prophet/president J.F.S Taught in the D of Salv. He said
Read pg 188 of Doct of Salvation vol 1.
I quote Joseph F Smith. "CHURCH STANDS OR FALLS WITH JOSEPH SMITH. MORMONISM, as it is called, must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. He was either a prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. Their is no middle ground. If Joseph Smith was a deceiver, who willfully attempted to mislead the people, then he should be exposed: his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines shown to be false".
He again we have the LDS PROPHET/PRESIDENT saying this to us, but when we Do as He said, we get called Hateful anti Mormon. Do the LDS even know He taught this? If So do they care?
For one thing, it’s incredibly repetitive.
Who cares? How does this prove the Books are wrong?
Most of its questions and claims have been brought up—and answered—time and time again for over 100 years. But because anti-Mormon authors want to discredit the Church, they keep writing the same stuff over and over in the hope that they can reach a new audience.
Some stuff has been brought up over and over but so what, I post on many boards that reach out to the LDS, and many questions I have asked go ignored and are never answered, I see many LDS who cannot answer honest questions, many Topics on my blog go ignored.
For another thing, you may not have the knowledge and experience to successfully investigate and counter all of the arguments they make.
This might be true, but the sad thing about it is, the LDS will not pull out the Books quoted from by us and sit down and show the quote and explain why it is wrong. Example, I own the entire set of Journal Of Discourses, it teaches the Adam God Doctrine. Now When we point this out, the LDS will say, that is false and tell these younger LDS were lying, but will they pull out the JoD volume one and let the younger LDS member read it for him/herself and decide on their own? No they will not, So I scan it and post it here on my blog, that is being honest and helpful, I let people see both sides. I also never quote from a source I do not own.
So I can back up everything I say. Also Many LDS want to say us Anti-LDS are lying and dis-honest, But I have posted on many Blogs and websites where LDS have said I am lying or taking things out of context, no sooner do I ask for proof, they stop posting and you never hear from them again. I honestly do not know how those LDS members can live with the fact they are calling me a liar but in fact they knew they lied.
If you do end up reading something that criticizes the Church, discuss it with someone you trust who is knowledgeable in the gospel, like your parents, bishop, or seminary teacher. They can help you find answers and, more importantly, put things in proper perspective.
Here are some exact Quotes from LDS leaders, These are things Us Anti's use and quote from, but the LDS leaders or LDS scripture have spoken on these things, Please explain how these things are dis-honest criticizes of the Church and please come here and put them into the proper perspective for me.
In the Journal of Discourses number 5 pg 203 Heber C Kimbal said this and I quote extra for context that some seem to feel people leave out.
"Some quietly listen to those who speak against the lords servants, against his anointed, against the plurality of wives, and against almost every principle that god has revealed. Such persons have a half dozen devils with them all the time. YOU MIGHT AS WELL DENY "MORMONISM," AND TURN AWAY FROM IT, AS TO OPPOSE THE PLURALITY OF WIVES. Let the presidency of this church, and the twelve apostles, and all the authorities unite and say with one voice that they will oppose that doctrine, and the whole of them would be damned. Also we read in vol 3 pg 266, where B Young said and I quote, "Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned. WOW B Young promises we will be damned if we stop this practice. I guess there will be many damned LDS, as the stopped doing this.
Let us add to this
D and C 132 1-3 2. Behold, and lo, I am the Lord thy God, and will answer thee as touching this matter. So here we find it is "supposedly" of God. 3. Therefore ,prepare thy heart to receive and obey the instructions which I am about to give unto you; FOR ALL THOSE WHO HAVE THIS LAW REVEALED UNTO THEM MUST OBEY THE SAME. 4. for behold, I reveal unto you a new and everlasting covenant, then are ye damned;for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory. I would like to point out some things here. First off in D and C 1:14 it says we must obey the lord, the apostles, and the prophets or we will be cut off.
Remember, this is only One Problem of many.
This next quote is a bunch of crap if I ever saw it.
Second, you should never take the claims of anti-Mormon literature at face value. Although some critics of the Church may be doing what they sincerely believe to be right, too many of them are either misinformed about the Church or downright antagonistic toward it. This latter group is often all too willing to rely on deception and dishonesty to achieve their goals. The literature they produce often uses lies or half-truths; it distorts, sensationalizes, or misinterprets Church teachings and history; its intent is to tear down the Church and scare people away from it.
I say it is a bunch of Crap because, Like I said and Quoted, the LDS PROPHET/PRESIDENT Said, if JS is a false Prophet he must be exposed. Then, Like things I quoted above are taken from what LDS leaders have said and taught, they are not Half Truth and quotes. I have posted this challange for others before, none have ever taken me up on it, or they tried and failed, Read my entire Blog and point out where I used a half truth or quoted a LDS prophet/leader in such a way as to lead someone astray by only posting a half quote to make it say something it did not. I tend to quote extra for evidence of not being accused of that. Then because the Above quote says, This latter group is often all too willing to rely on deception and dishonesty to achieve their goals. The literature they produce often uses lies or half-trutjavascript:void(0)hs; it distorts, sensationalizes, or misinterprets Church teachings and history;
Let me put forth more sayings from LDS leaders and LDS scripture.
JS claims over in D and C 135:3-4 he has done more except Jesus has.
"B Young: "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199). I quote 3rd president John Taylor (Brigham Young quotes Mr. Taylor) "Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell, the eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and kicked onto the earth" (J.O.D 6:176). I quote Heber C. Kimball "Christians-those poor, miserable priests brother Brigham was speaking about-some of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth" (J.O.D 5:89)." then we can add the first vision by Joseph Smith. If God really did speak to him then he said all the Christian creeds are an abomtion in his sight.
Now here is the subject of Negros and them not being able to receive the same rights as white people according to the Prophet B Young and Bruce Mc. But even this has since changed and has been tried to be buried.
In the 1958 edition Mormon Doctrine ( I happen to own a copy), pg 477 says,
Negroes in this life are denied the priesthood; UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES can they hold this delegation of authority from the ALMIGHTY. The GOSPEL message of salvation is not carried AFFIRMATIVELY to them....Negroes are NOT EQUAL with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned.
So please explain how we go from UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES to the change that it is ok in the newer versions of Mormon Doctrine? Also please explain this, B Young clearly states here in
JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES VOL 10 PG 110 (again I own these books) Shall I tell you THE LAW OF GOD in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the LAW OF GOD, is DEATH on the SPOT. THIS WILL ALWAYS BE SO.
All these Sayings/teachings are from LDS prophets, us so called Anti's are simply pointing this stuff out. Funny How were hateful, yet look what the LDS leaders said about Christians.
Now read in D and C 71:5-11 98:14,23-26 it says meet your enemy in public. If I am your enemy which I don't feel I am but if I am it says meet me in public to talk about this stuff. Jesus said love your enemy. D and C 66:7 68:1,9 go into the church's public or private to discuss this stuff. D and C 6:9-11 say convince us of our error if we have any. why do I get accused of being hateful for doing what the scriptures teach. now let me add this, would you agree it is good to listen to the Mormon prophets? if so, then I am.
I quote Orsan Pratt still pg 15. "we ask from you the same generosity--protect us in the exercise of our religious rights--CONVINCE US of our errors of doctrine, if we have any, by reason, by logical arguments, or by the word of god, and we will be ever grateful for the information, and you will ever have the pleasing reflection that you have been instruments in the hands of God redeeming your fellow beings from the darkness which you may see enveloping their minds".
I am just trying to look at Mormonism in a logical way and point out what I believe are problems. I find it interesting that Mormons of old were willing to tell others they were wrong or be open to talks. but it does not appear to be that way today. I hope this really makes you examine your faith. If you would like to talk privately off line you are more than welcome.
Part 3 will be next. Rick b
Monday, October 01, 2007
LDS Church teaches, Please do not think, let us do it for you. PT 1
My newest topic is from a question and answer section found on the LDS website, I cut and paste the entire Q and A here with my thoughts on it, but you can also Double check the LDS website and read it their is you think for any reason I messed with it. Just click here, Q and A
“Q&A: Questions and Answers,” New Era, Jul 2007, 14–16
Responses are intended for help and perspective, not as pronouncements of Church doctrine.
“One of my friends, who is active in the Church, has some anti-Mormon literature and thinks we should read it so we know how to respond to it. But I find that literature disturbing. What should I tell my friend?”
New Era
*
• Say you would rather read something you trust, like the scriptures.
*
• Spending a lot of time and energy reading anti-Mormon literature would be a waste.
*
• If you run across it, discuss it with someone who is knowledgeable about the gospel.
*
• Never take anti-Mormon literature at face value.
*
• Honest inquiry is good, but everything needs a proper perspective and context.
If the misrepresentations in anti-Mormon literature really disturb you, then tell your friend how you feel so that he’ll leave you alone about it. Tell him you’d rather read something you trust, like the scriptures or Church publications.
Here are a couple of things to remember about anti-Mormon material.
First, it would be a waste to spend a lot of time and energy reading it. For one thing, it’s incredibly repetitive. Most of its questions and claims have been brought up—and answered—time and time again for over 100 years. But because anti-Mormon authors want to discredit the Church, they keep writing the same stuff over and over in the hope that they can reach a new audience. For another thing, you may not have the knowledge and experience to successfully investigate and counter all of the arguments they make. If you do end up reading something that criticizes the Church, discuss it with someone you trust who is knowledgeable in the gospel, like your parents, bishop, or seminary teacher. They can help you find answers and, more importantly, put things in proper perspective.
Second, you should never take the claims of anti-Mormon literature at face value. Although some critics of the Church may be doing what they sincerely believe to be right, too many of them are either misinformed about the Church or downright antagonistic toward it. This latter group is often all too willing to rely on deception and dishonesty to achieve their goals. The literature they produce often uses lies or half-truths; it distorts, sensationalizes, or misinterprets Church teachings and history; its intent is to tear down the Church and scare people away from it.
Think of how you feel when you read the Book of Mormon, pray, or bear your testimony. How do those feelings compare with the feelings that come from reading anti-Mormon literature? Which is guiding you to the truth?
We’re not against honest inquiry in the Church. We welcome it. The Apostle Paul said, “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21). The Prophet Joseph Smith said, “One of the grand fundamental principles of ‘Mormonism’ is to receive truth, let it come from whence it may” (History of the Church, 5:499). As we search for truth in Church teachings and history, we should remember that it is faith in Christ that helps us to “lay hold upon every good thing” (see Moroni 7:15–25). And we should keep everything in its proper perspective and context. President Gordon B. Hinckley has said:
“We seem to have a host of critics. Some appear intent on trying to destroy us. They mock that which is sacred. They belittle that which we call divine. Some have said that we are trapped by our history, others have worked with great diligence seeking flaws in our early leaders. …
“My plea is that as we continue our search for truth, particularly we of the Church, that we look for strength and goodness rather than weakness and foibles in those who did so great a work in their time. …
“… I hope that we will cultivate an attitude of looking for positive elements which lead to growth and enthusiasm. We are not trapped by our history. That history contains the foundation of this work. …
“I do not fear truth. I welcome it. But I wish all of my facts to be in their proper context” (“The Continuing Pursuit of Truth,” Ensign, Apr. 1986, 4–6).
Image
“The present effort of trying to find some other explanation for the organization of the Church, for the origin of the Book of Mormon, and for the priesthood with its keys and powers will be similar to other anti-Mormon fads which have come and blossomed and faded. Truth will prevail. A knowledge of that truth comes by effort and study, yes. But it comes primarily as a gift from God to those who seek in faith.”
President Gordon B. Hinckley, “Lord, Increase Our Faith,” Ensign, Nov. 1987, 52–53.
Readers
Reading anti-Mormon literature could deceive your friend, even if he or she has a strong testimony. The best way to know how to respond to opposing views is to study the Book of Mormon. I know it is the word of God, and after all, it was written for our day! With the Holy Ghost to guide us as we read the Book of Mormon and other scriptures, we can learn to recognize deception and can have the Spirit to guide us when we may need to respond.
Alicia M., 18, Utah
Just tell your friend the truth, that you find that literature disturbing. If he or she is a true friend, he or she will have no problem with it. Stick with your feeling of not wanting to read it. If you do read it, it could open up a window of doubt. There are plenty of books (like True to the Faith) that have been written through inspiration. Pick up one of those so that you may know how to respond to questions.
Brian P., 16, Arizona
On my mission I have come across a lot of anti-Mormon literature. It is disturbing. I have seen honest seekers of truth fall away because of it. If you want to learn how to answer people’s concerns, do two things: gain a strong testimony of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ, and know the doctrine by studying the scriptures. Then, when others come to you with concerns, you will have the power of the Holy Ghost to testify to you and to them of the truth.
Sister Holly Erikson, 23, Tennessee Nashville Mission
Anti-Mormon literature will be filled with scriptures or quotes that are taken out of context and twisted to serve the author’s purpose of filling people’s minds with doubt about the Church. The fact that you get an uneasy feeling when you read anti-Mormon literature should be proof enough. The best thing you can do to be prepared for questions is to be faithful and read the Book of Mormon daily. Also, most people who will ask you questions that come from the anti-Mormon literature are not interested in finding the gospel. They want you to argue with them so they can twist your words (see Alma 11).
Jenika W., 19, Washington
One day I was talking to a friend, who is not a member of our church, and we almost got to the point where we started putting each other’s churches down, but I didn’t want it to get to that point, so I just bore my testimony and stopped. A few weeks later I got some pamphlets and magazines in the mail from her. I could have kept them so that I would know what some writers think about our church, but I didn’t. This experience made me want to be more prepared when things like this happen.
Alexandria M., 15, Oregon
What you read or watch has an effect on you. Part of the 13th article of faith says that “if there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.” I do not think reading anti-Mormon literature fits in the above statement. Plus you find the literature disturbing. That may be the Spirit sending you a message to stay away from this literature.
Martyn T., 22, Wakiso, Uganda
There is far greater benefit from searching the inspired words of prophets and apostles of the Lord, in the scriptures and Church magazines. That is when we receive the Spirit’s direction, not when we are immersed in the adversary’s filth.
Elder Calvin Oberly Jr., 24, New York New York South Mission
First thing said in the article is
I honestly do not see how this is helping anyone, the majority of LDS will simply blindly believe everything the LDS church say and avoid any and all so called Anti-mormon Anything. This means that if the LDS Church is in fact wrong and a person does not search the Scriptures as the Bible tells us two, ACTS 17:11, then the Member dies and finds out Hell is real and the in fact were following a false jesus and false gospel, they have no one to blame but them selves.
Next, we read the question asked by this person,
First off, I agree with the first half, this persons friends reading it to see how they should reply. I am told by LDS that I cannot give a reply if I did not read the BoM for my self, and If I do not look into what the LDS leaders and Prophets said, then I have no ground to stand on for replying to them.
If the LDS feel that about me not reading their stuff, so I then read their stuff, they should be honest enough to read my stuff or the book of other authors. Then this person say about Anti- Mormon literature that they find it disturbing?
Now an honest question would be, Have you read this for your self? If not, then how can you honestly say, I find this stuff disturbing? If you have not read it for your self, how can you take issue with it, you do not even know what it says.
Then the Person ends their question with
Let me reply with, PLEASE do not think for your self allow the LDS to think for you by giving you a reply to tell your friend.
Anyway the LDS reply is,
Here the LDS think for this person. The first thing they say is,
I would say this, How can you say you do not trust the Anti Mormon Books, you have not read them for your self, so how can you HONESTLY SAY that. Then, if your not Going to search this stuff out, how can I trust you to have Honestly searched out your LDS scriptures and give my honest feed back to my questions?
Then the Next LDS reply is
How is it a waste? If it shows your Church is wrong and Why. Look over my blog, many Topics I did have Scanned LDS Books showing the LDS prophets not agreeing with what each other says or not agreeing with Scripture. Read this LDS prophets do not agree
Or read this if you want more problems in Mormon Scripture, contradictions
If thats not good enough and you want to see actual scanned LDS books for evidence, Click here, adam god
And for even more Scanned copies click here, Evidence
Funny thing about my Evidence Topic, not One LDS has replied yet.
Now back to the LDS answers, They also said
Funny thing about this, the LDS feel they are knowledgeable about the gospel, yet us Anti Mormons do not feel they are and we provide evidence as to why we think that. Yet the LDS do not want other LDS to see that, so they claim, do not read it. It is easy to claim you are knowledgeable, but can you back it up?
Then they said
Funny that they should say that, as the Majority of stuff posted on my blog in the way of so called Anti-Mormon stuff is nothing more that Quotes from the LDS church or is leaders/prophets/presidents. So if they do not want you taking THEIR TEACHINGS at face value, then so be it.
Lastly they say,
How can they say in one breath that Honest inquiry is good, yet they then tell you not to read the anti-mormon books, that like say, please do not make an Honest inquiry. Then when they say everything needs proper perspective and context, how can you honestly have that if you cannot look at both sides? I have and always will encourage people to look at both sides, that is why I post LDS scripture in the form of scanned copies, so you can clearly see for your self. I will pick up the rest in a part two. Rick b
“Q&A: Questions and Answers,” New Era, Jul 2007, 14–16
Responses are intended for help and perspective, not as pronouncements of Church doctrine.
“One of my friends, who is active in the Church, has some anti-Mormon literature and thinks we should read it so we know how to respond to it. But I find that literature disturbing. What should I tell my friend?”
New Era
*
• Say you would rather read something you trust, like the scriptures.
*
• Spending a lot of time and energy reading anti-Mormon literature would be a waste.
*
• If you run across it, discuss it with someone who is knowledgeable about the gospel.
*
• Never take anti-Mormon literature at face value.
*
• Honest inquiry is good, but everything needs a proper perspective and context.
If the misrepresentations in anti-Mormon literature really disturb you, then tell your friend how you feel so that he’ll leave you alone about it. Tell him you’d rather read something you trust, like the scriptures or Church publications.
Here are a couple of things to remember about anti-Mormon material.
First, it would be a waste to spend a lot of time and energy reading it. For one thing, it’s incredibly repetitive. Most of its questions and claims have been brought up—and answered—time and time again for over 100 years. But because anti-Mormon authors want to discredit the Church, they keep writing the same stuff over and over in the hope that they can reach a new audience. For another thing, you may not have the knowledge and experience to successfully investigate and counter all of the arguments they make. If you do end up reading something that criticizes the Church, discuss it with someone you trust who is knowledgeable in the gospel, like your parents, bishop, or seminary teacher. They can help you find answers and, more importantly, put things in proper perspective.
Second, you should never take the claims of anti-Mormon literature at face value. Although some critics of the Church may be doing what they sincerely believe to be right, too many of them are either misinformed about the Church or downright antagonistic toward it. This latter group is often all too willing to rely on deception and dishonesty to achieve their goals. The literature they produce often uses lies or half-truths; it distorts, sensationalizes, or misinterprets Church teachings and history; its intent is to tear down the Church and scare people away from it.
Think of how you feel when you read the Book of Mormon, pray, or bear your testimony. How do those feelings compare with the feelings that come from reading anti-Mormon literature? Which is guiding you to the truth?
We’re not against honest inquiry in the Church. We welcome it. The Apostle Paul said, “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21). The Prophet Joseph Smith said, “One of the grand fundamental principles of ‘Mormonism’ is to receive truth, let it come from whence it may” (History of the Church, 5:499). As we search for truth in Church teachings and history, we should remember that it is faith in Christ that helps us to “lay hold upon every good thing” (see Moroni 7:15–25). And we should keep everything in its proper perspective and context. President Gordon B. Hinckley has said:
“We seem to have a host of critics. Some appear intent on trying to destroy us. They mock that which is sacred. They belittle that which we call divine. Some have said that we are trapped by our history, others have worked with great diligence seeking flaws in our early leaders. …
“My plea is that as we continue our search for truth, particularly we of the Church, that we look for strength and goodness rather than weakness and foibles in those who did so great a work in their time. …
“… I hope that we will cultivate an attitude of looking for positive elements which lead to growth and enthusiasm. We are not trapped by our history. That history contains the foundation of this work. …
“I do not fear truth. I welcome it. But I wish all of my facts to be in their proper context” (“The Continuing Pursuit of Truth,” Ensign, Apr. 1986, 4–6).
Image
“The present effort of trying to find some other explanation for the organization of the Church, for the origin of the Book of Mormon, and for the priesthood with its keys and powers will be similar to other anti-Mormon fads which have come and blossomed and faded. Truth will prevail. A knowledge of that truth comes by effort and study, yes. But it comes primarily as a gift from God to those who seek in faith.”
President Gordon B. Hinckley, “Lord, Increase Our Faith,” Ensign, Nov. 1987, 52–53.
Readers
Reading anti-Mormon literature could deceive your friend, even if he or she has a strong testimony. The best way to know how to respond to opposing views is to study the Book of Mormon. I know it is the word of God, and after all, it was written for our day! With the Holy Ghost to guide us as we read the Book of Mormon and other scriptures, we can learn to recognize deception and can have the Spirit to guide us when we may need to respond.
Alicia M., 18, Utah
Just tell your friend the truth, that you find that literature disturbing. If he or she is a true friend, he or she will have no problem with it. Stick with your feeling of not wanting to read it. If you do read it, it could open up a window of doubt. There are plenty of books (like True to the Faith) that have been written through inspiration. Pick up one of those so that you may know how to respond to questions.
Brian P., 16, Arizona
On my mission I have come across a lot of anti-Mormon literature. It is disturbing. I have seen honest seekers of truth fall away because of it. If you want to learn how to answer people’s concerns, do two things: gain a strong testimony of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ, and know the doctrine by studying the scriptures. Then, when others come to you with concerns, you will have the power of the Holy Ghost to testify to you and to them of the truth.
Sister Holly Erikson, 23, Tennessee Nashville Mission
Anti-Mormon literature will be filled with scriptures or quotes that are taken out of context and twisted to serve the author’s purpose of filling people’s minds with doubt about the Church. The fact that you get an uneasy feeling when you read anti-Mormon literature should be proof enough. The best thing you can do to be prepared for questions is to be faithful and read the Book of Mormon daily. Also, most people who will ask you questions that come from the anti-Mormon literature are not interested in finding the gospel. They want you to argue with them so they can twist your words (see Alma 11).
Jenika W., 19, Washington
One day I was talking to a friend, who is not a member of our church, and we almost got to the point where we started putting each other’s churches down, but I didn’t want it to get to that point, so I just bore my testimony and stopped. A few weeks later I got some pamphlets and magazines in the mail from her. I could have kept them so that I would know what some writers think about our church, but I didn’t. This experience made me want to be more prepared when things like this happen.
Alexandria M., 15, Oregon
What you read or watch has an effect on you. Part of the 13th article of faith says that “if there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.” I do not think reading anti-Mormon literature fits in the above statement. Plus you find the literature disturbing. That may be the Spirit sending you a message to stay away from this literature.
Martyn T., 22, Wakiso, Uganda
There is far greater benefit from searching the inspired words of prophets and apostles of the Lord, in the scriptures and Church magazines. That is when we receive the Spirit’s direction, not when we are immersed in the adversary’s filth.
Elder Calvin Oberly Jr., 24, New York New York South Mission
First thing said in the article is
Responses are intended for help and perspective, not as pronouncements of Church doctrine.
I honestly do not see how this is helping anyone, the majority of LDS will simply blindly believe everything the LDS church say and avoid any and all so called Anti-mormon Anything. This means that if the LDS Church is in fact wrong and a person does not search the Scriptures as the Bible tells us two, ACTS 17:11, then the Member dies and finds out Hell is real and the in fact were following a false jesus and false gospel, they have no one to blame but them selves.
Next, we read the question asked by this person,
“One of my friends, who is active in the Church, has some anti-Mormon literature and thinks we should read it so we know how to respond to it. But I find that literature disturbing. What should I tell my friend?”
First off, I agree with the first half, this persons friends reading it to see how they should reply. I am told by LDS that I cannot give a reply if I did not read the BoM for my self, and If I do not look into what the LDS leaders and Prophets said, then I have no ground to stand on for replying to them.
If the LDS feel that about me not reading their stuff, so I then read their stuff, they should be honest enough to read my stuff or the book of other authors. Then this person say about Anti- Mormon literature that they find it disturbing?
Now an honest question would be, Have you read this for your self? If not, then how can you honestly say, I find this stuff disturbing? If you have not read it for your self, how can you take issue with it, you do not even know what it says.
Then the Person ends their question with
What should I tell my friend?”
Let me reply with, PLEASE do not think for your self allow the LDS to think for you by giving you a reply to tell your friend.
Anyway the LDS reply is,
New Era
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• Say you would rather read something you trust, like the scriptures.
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• Spending a lot of time and energy reading anti-Mormon literature would be a waste.
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• If you run across it, discuss it with someone who is knowledgeable about the gospel.
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• Never take anti-Mormon literature at face value.
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• Honest inquiry is good, but everything needs a proper perspective and context.
Here the LDS think for this person. The first thing they say is,
• Say you would rather read something you trust, like the scriptures.
I would say this, How can you say you do not trust the Anti Mormon Books, you have not read them for your self, so how can you HONESTLY SAY that. Then, if your not Going to search this stuff out, how can I trust you to have Honestly searched out your LDS scriptures and give my honest feed back to my questions?
Then the Next LDS reply is
Spending a lot of time and energy reading anti-Mormon literature would be a waste.
How is it a waste? If it shows your Church is wrong and Why. Look over my blog, many Topics I did have Scanned LDS Books showing the LDS prophets not agreeing with what each other says or not agreeing with Scripture. Read this LDS prophets do not agree
Or read this if you want more problems in Mormon Scripture, contradictions
If thats not good enough and you want to see actual scanned LDS books for evidence, Click here, adam god
And for even more Scanned copies click here, Evidence
Funny thing about my Evidence Topic, not One LDS has replied yet.
Now back to the LDS answers, They also said
• If you run across it, discuss it with someone who is knowledgeable about the gospel.
Funny thing about this, the LDS feel they are knowledgeable about the gospel, yet us Anti Mormons do not feel they are and we provide evidence as to why we think that. Yet the LDS do not want other LDS to see that, so they claim, do not read it. It is easy to claim you are knowledgeable, but can you back it up?
Then they said
• Never take anti-Mormon literature at face value.
Funny that they should say that, as the Majority of stuff posted on my blog in the way of so called Anti-Mormon stuff is nothing more that Quotes from the LDS church or is leaders/prophets/presidents. So if they do not want you taking THEIR TEACHINGS at face value, then so be it.
Lastly they say,
• Honest inquiry is good, but everything needs a proper perspective and context.
How can they say in one breath that Honest inquiry is good, yet they then tell you not to read the anti-mormon books, that like say, please do not make an Honest inquiry. Then when they say everything needs proper perspective and context, how can you honestly have that if you cannot look at both sides? I have and always will encourage people to look at both sides, that is why I post LDS scripture in the form of scanned copies, so you can clearly see for your self. I will pick up the rest in a part two. Rick b
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