LDS Church teaches, Please do not think, let us do it for you. PT 2

I will break part two down and add my own thoughts to it, if you have not read all of what the Q/A said please go back to part 1 and read it first. part 1



Here are a couple of things to remember about anti-Mormon material.

First, it would be a waste to spend a lot of time and energy reading it.

How is following Acts 17:11 a waste of time, to go along with acts 17:11 which says, They Searched the Scriptures to know if this was true, the BoM teaches the same thing, read Alma 14:1, 17:2,33:2 All say, Search the Scriptures. So if your An LDS and your BoM teaches to search the scriptures to know if something is true or not, then you simply cannot say something like Anti Mormon books are false with out first checking the facts. Then the other Mormon Scripture, the D and C says,

11 And if thou wilt inquire, thou shalt know mysteries which are great and marvelous; therefore thou shalt exercise thy gift, that thou mayest find out mysteries, that thou mayest bring many to the knowledge of the truth, yea, convince them of the error of their ways.

We so called anti Mormons try and convince people of the error of their ways, but then get called hateful, Lets post what the LDS prophet/president J.F.S Taught in the D of Salv. He said

Read pg 188 of Doct of Salvation vol 1.

I quote Joseph F Smith. "CHURCH STANDS OR FALLS WITH JOSEPH SMITH. MORMONISM, as it is called, must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. He was either a prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. Their is no middle ground. If Joseph Smith was a deceiver, who willfully attempted to mislead the people, then he should be exposed: his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines shown to be false".

He again we have the LDS PROPHET/PRESIDENT saying this to us, but when we Do as He said, we get called Hateful anti Mormon. Do the LDS even know He taught this? If So do they care?

For one thing, it’s incredibly repetitive.

Who cares? How does this prove the Books are wrong?

Most of its questions and claims have been brought up—and answered—time and time again for over 100 years. But because anti-Mormon authors want to discredit the Church, they keep writing the same stuff over and over in the hope that they can reach a new audience.

Some stuff has been brought up over and over but so what, I post on many boards that reach out to the LDS, and many questions I have asked go ignored and are never answered, I see many LDS who cannot answer honest questions, many Topics on my blog go ignored.

For another thing, you may not have the knowledge and experience to successfully investigate and counter all of the arguments they make.

This might be true, but the sad thing about it is, the LDS will not pull out the Books quoted from by us and sit down and show the quote and explain why it is wrong. Example, I own the entire set of Journal Of Discourses, it teaches the Adam God Doctrine. Now When we point this out, the LDS will say, that is false and tell these younger LDS were lying, but will they pull out the JoD volume one and let the younger LDS member read it for him/herself and decide on their own? No they will not, So I scan it and post it here on my blog, that is being honest and helpful, I let people see both sides. I also never quote from a source I do not own.

So I can back up everything I say. Also Many LDS want to say us Anti-LDS are lying and dis-honest, But I have posted on many Blogs and websites where LDS have said I am lying or taking things out of context, no sooner do I ask for proof, they stop posting and you never hear from them again. I honestly do not know how those LDS members can live with the fact they are calling me a liar but in fact they knew they lied.

If you do end up reading something that criticizes the Church, discuss it with someone you trust who is knowledgeable in the gospel, like your parents, bishop, or seminary teacher. They can help you find answers and, more importantly, put things in proper perspective.

Here are some exact Quotes from LDS leaders, These are things Us Anti's use and quote from, but the LDS leaders or LDS scripture have spoken on these things, Please explain how these things are dis-honest criticizes of the Church and please come here and put them into the proper perspective for me.

In the Journal of Discourses number 5 pg 203 Heber C Kimbal said this and I quote extra for context that some seem to feel people leave out.


"Some quietly listen to those who speak against the lords servants, against his anointed, against the plurality of wives, and against almost every principle that god has revealed. Such persons have a half dozen devils with them all the time. YOU MIGHT AS WELL DENY "MORMONISM," AND TURN AWAY FROM IT, AS TO OPPOSE THE PLURALITY OF WIVES. Let the presidency of this church, and the twelve apostles, and all the authorities unite and say with one voice that they will oppose that doctrine, and the whole of them would be damned. Also we read in vol 3 pg 266, where B Young said and I quote, "Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned. WOW B Young promises we will be damned if we stop this practice. I guess there will be many damned LDS, as the stopped doing this.



Let us add to this

D and C 132 1-3 2. Behold, and lo, I am the Lord thy God, and will answer thee as touching this matter. So here we find it is "supposedly" of God. 3. Therefore ,prepare thy heart to receive and obey the instructions which I am about to give unto you; FOR ALL THOSE WHO HAVE THIS LAW REVEALED UNTO THEM MUST OBEY THE SAME. 4. for behold, I reveal unto you a new and everlasting covenant, then are ye damned;for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory. I would like to point out some things here. First off in D and C 1:14 it says we must obey the lord, the apostles, and the prophets or we will be cut off.

Remember, this is only One Problem of many.

This next quote is a bunch of crap if I ever saw it.

Second, you should never take the claims of anti-Mormon literature at face value. Although some critics of the Church may be doing what they sincerely believe to be right, too many of them are either misinformed about the Church or downright antagonistic toward it. This latter group is often all too willing to rely on deception and dishonesty to achieve their goals. The literature they produce often uses lies or half-truths; it distorts, sensationalizes, or misinterprets Church teachings and history; its intent is to tear down the Church and scare people away from it.

I say it is a bunch of Crap because, Like I said and Quoted, the LDS PROPHET/PRESIDENT Said, if JS is a false Prophet he must be exposed. Then, Like things I quoted above are taken from what LDS leaders have said and taught, they are not Half Truth and quotes. I have posted this challange for others before, none have ever taken me up on it, or they tried and failed, Read my entire Blog and point out where I used a half truth or quoted a LDS prophet/leader in such a way as to lead someone astray by only posting a half quote to make it say something it did not. I tend to quote extra for evidence of not being accused of that. Then because the Above quote says, This latter group is often all too willing to rely on deception and dishonesty to achieve their goals. The literature they produce often uses lies or half-trutjavascript:void(0)hs; it distorts, sensationalizes, or misinterprets Church teachings and history;

Let me put forth more sayings from LDS leaders and LDS scripture.

JS claims over in D and C 135:3-4 he has done more except Jesus has.

"B Young: "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199). I quote 3rd president John Taylor (Brigham Young quotes Mr. Taylor) "Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell, the eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and kicked onto the earth" (J.O.D 6:176). I quote Heber C. Kimball "Christians-those poor, miserable priests brother Brigham was speaking about-some of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth" (J.O.D 5:89)." then we can add the first vision by Joseph Smith. If God really did speak to him then he said all the Christian creeds are an abomtion in his sight.


Now here is the subject of Negros and them not being able to receive the same rights as white people according to the Prophet B Young and Bruce Mc. But even this has since changed and has been tried to be buried.

In the 1958 edition Mormon Doctrine ( I happen to own a copy), pg 477 says,

Negroes in this life are denied the priesthood; UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES can they hold this delegation of authority from the ALMIGHTY. The GOSPEL message of salvation is not carried AFFIRMATIVELY to them....Negroes are NOT EQUAL with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned.



So please explain how we go from UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES to the change that it is ok in the newer versions of Mormon Doctrine? Also please explain this, B Young clearly states here in

JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES VOL 10 PG 110 (again I own these books) Shall I tell you THE LAW OF GOD in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the LAW OF GOD, is DEATH on the SPOT. THIS WILL ALWAYS BE SO.

All these Sayings/teachings are from LDS prophets, us so called Anti's are simply pointing this stuff out. Funny How were hateful, yet look what the LDS leaders said about Christians.

Now read in D and C 71:5-11 98:14,23-26 it says meet your enemy in public. If I am your enemy which I don't feel I am but if I am it says meet me in public to talk about this stuff. Jesus said love your enemy. D and C 66:7 68:1,9 go into the church's public or private to discuss this stuff. D and C 6:9-11 say convince us of our error if we have any. why do I get accused of being hateful for doing what the scriptures teach. now let me add this, would you agree it is good to listen to the Mormon prophets? if so, then I am.


I quote Orsan Pratt still pg 15. "we ask from you the same generosity--protect us in the exercise of our religious rights--CONVINCE US of our errors of doctrine, if we have any, by reason, by logical arguments, or by the word of god, and we will be ever grateful for the information, and you will ever have the pleasing reflection that you have been instruments in the hands of God redeeming your fellow beings from the darkness which you may see enveloping their minds".

I am just trying to look at Mormonism in a logical way and point out what I believe are problems. I find it interesting that Mormons of old were willing to tell others they were wrong or be open to talks. but it does not appear to be that way today. I hope this really makes you examine your faith. If you would like to talk privately off line you are more than welcome.

Part 3 will be next. Rick b