The book of Ether chapter 2
16 And the Lord said: Go to work and build, after the manner of barges which ye have hitherto built. And it came to pass that the brother of Jared did go to work, and also his brethren, and built barges after the manner which they had built, according to the instructions of the Lord. And they were small, and they were light upon the water, even like unto the lightness of a fowl upon the water.
17 And they were built after a manner that they were exceedingly tight, even that they would hold water like unto a dish; and the bottom thereof was tight like unto a dish; and the sides thereof were tight like unto a dish; and the ends thereof were peaked; and the top thereof was tight like unto a dish; and the length thereof was the length of a tree; and the door thereof, when it was shut, was tight like unto a dish.
18 And it came to pass that the brother of Jared cried unto the Lord, saying: O Lord, I have performed the work which thou hast commanded me, and I have made the barges according as thou hast directed me.
19 And behold, O Lord, in them there is no light; whither shall we steer? And also we shall perish, for in them we cannot breathe, save it is the air which is in them; therefore we shall perish.
20 And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood.
21 And it came to pass that the brother of Jared did so, according as the Lord had commanded.
22 And he cried again unto the Lord saying: O Lord, behold I have done even as thou hast commanded me; and I have prepared the vessels for my people, and behold there is no light in them. Behold, O Lord, wilt thou suffer that we shall cross this great water in darkness?
23 And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: What will ye that I should do that ye may have light in your vessels? For behold, ye cannot have windows, for they will be dashed in pieces; neither shall ye take fire with you, for ye shall not go by the light of fire.
24 For behold, ye shall be as a whale in the midst of the sea; for the mountain waves shall dash upon you. Nevertheless, I will bring you up again out of the depths of the sea; for the winds have gone forth out of my mouth, and also the drains and the floods have I sent forth.
25 And behold, I prepare you against these things; for ye cannot cross this great deep save I prepare you against the waves of the sea, and the winds which have gone forth, and the floods which shall come. Therefore what will ye that I should prepare for you that ye may have light when ye are swallowed up in the depths of the sea?
Now lets read the account in the Bible about Noah and the ark he was told to build.
14 Make yourself an ark of gopherwood; make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and outside with pitch.
15 And this is how you shall make it: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, its width fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits.
16 You shall make a window for the ark, and you shall finish it to a cubit from above; and set the door of the ark in its side. You shall make it with lower, second, and third decks.
17 And behold, I Myself am bringing floodwaters on the earth, to destroy from under heaven all flesh in which is the breath of life; everything that is on the earth shall die.
18 But I will establish My covenant with you; and you shall go into the ark--you, your sons, your wife, and your sons' wives with you.
19 And of every living thing of all flesh you shall bring two of every sort into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female.
20 Of the birds after their kind, of animals after their kind, and of every creeping thing of the earth after its kind, two of every kind will come to you to keep them alive.
21 And you shall take for yourself of all food that is eaten, and you shall gather it to yourself; and it shall be food for you and for them."
22 Thus Noah did; according to all that God commanded him, so he did.
In the Bible, when we read the account Given to Noah by God on how to build the ark, we find great detail, How many floors, the lenght of the ark, the kind of wood used, It HAS A WINDOW, a food supply Etc.
It would appear in the Book of Mormon, God is not as smart as in the Bible. First off, According to the BoM, in Ether 3:1 we read, Jared and his crew were told to make EIGHT BOATS, 1 And it came to pass that the brother of Jared, (now the number of the vessels which had been prepared was eight).
First off, for me, I would ask the simple question of, Why not just make one big barge that could fit everyone. I thought families were forever? If they are, why would it be so hard to keep a few people in one boat.
The Account given in the BoM we read, that Jared showed lack of faith by saying to the Lord, we wont be able to breath because of lack of air. We wont be able to see because of no light and we cannot steer.
I read in the Bible, God supplied Food, God never told noah to steer the Ark, We can assume God guided it and protected the ark, We read in the Bible, that there were great upheavals because of earthquakes and great destruction upon the earth, it was more than just rain falling for 40 days. God clearly protected Noah, why not Jared and his family?
Why is it, the Plans for Noah's ark were not the same for Jared's? The thing that really gets me, and in my mind, portrays God as being Stupid, is the issue of, We have no Air in the barge's. So God tells Jared, put a hole in the Top of the barge and the Bottom of the barge, Then put plugs in the holes. When you need air, pull out a plug to receive air.
20 And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood.
Lets examine just how crazy this really appears. This defy's logic, yet many people sadly believe this and except this as Gods Holy Word. It would stand to reason, if your standing up on the Floor, and you look down and see a plug, you won't want to pull it, because it would make sense the bottom of the barge is in the water. So you would want to pull the top one, But we read in verse 20, that if you pull the plug and water comes in, put the plug back in so the barge won't fill with water and sink.
If you pull the top plug, and water comes in then this would imply, your completely under water, If you need a plug on the bottom and the top, this implies you are being tossed all around, this would mean also you turn completely over, this means you did a 180 degree turn. Just imagine if you did that a few times, People would be seriously hurt. You cannot roll over in a car many times and never get a scratch. If God really did say, put a plug in the top and bottom, it shows He knew you would be rolling over, If God really did say, if you pull the plug and water comes in, then put the plug back in to stop the water, this means He knew you would be under water.
This tells me, God is not a loving God to allow this or he simply is not very smart. Then if your running out of air to breath, and only water comes in, then as the water fills the barge, even if it is only a foot or two of water, then this means, there is even less air to breath. If you needed the air to breath, and you pull the plug to obtain more air, then this means your running dangerously low, If only water comes in, then the odds of you dying from lack of air are increased greatly.
Then it adds the problem of, if you let in water one to many times, you simply will sink under water due to the water aboard the Barge. It also begs the question of, If the Barges are as light as a fowl upon the water, I don't recall ever once hearing about any birds, ducks or any other types of water fowl, simply just sinking into the water. So why did or do the barges go under water even for just a few minutes?
Now in verse 23, The lord tells jared You cannot have a window, lest it gets dashed to pieces. Well then why did Noah's ark have a window? Did God not understand this whole idea of windows on the ark breaking? As near as I can tell, The ark's window was noting more than a hole cut out with a board covering it, then they simply lift the board and the let the dove out or later the raven out. God told Jared, he could not have Fire on board. Well this fire would only burn up the air supply, this would cause them to pull the plug out more often, resulting in greater destruction of the barge. The other problem with the lack of air, is without air you will pass out never to wake up again.
Last but not least, we read in verse 24-25, God seems to understand that they will go under the water, And God states He will take care of them. Well if he can take care of them, why does He give lousy barge plans, and appear to be so stupid. Just my thoughts. Rick b
14 comments:
This narrative displays one of the basic and fundamental beliefs of the devouted Latter Day Saint: Eternal Progression.
It shows that even though God is God, He is still Progressing just like us--the appearance of being not that smart as you pointed out in this passage. He is just further down the same path man is travelling. The gulf between God and man is not really that far in the mind of the Mormon just a narrow causeway bridged by Christ, but requiring man's effort and strength to cross not God's.
Hello Jonathan,
I can understand how mormons would think this way, but the problem is, The great flood with noah occured first. So did God then in fact simply DEPROGRESS?
Also Both the Bible and the BoM claim God is ALL POWERFUL and All KNOWING, How can these things be true, if God is not smart enough to help Jared? Rick b
Why are you comparing this to the flood with Noah? They are different events and circumstances. Why are you saying that God digressed when He told Jared to do something different for a different circumstance? And even though God is all knowing and all Powerful it is obvious that usually He leaves us to figure things out for ourselves.
Now concerning the barges. You find it odd that there is a hole in the bottom and the top. Did you know that if the top hole is plugged and you open the bottom hole to, say clean out the boat or fish or whatever, that water will not come in. Neat design I think.
What does it matter if there are 8 boats instead of 1? What if they didnt have the same materials that Noah did? What if they did not have the time to build one massive boat? To say that they had a different design means that it couldnt come from God is a silly notion.
Last of all; it is widley understood from Biblical scholars that the "window" in Noahs ark was actually a glowing stone. Please do some in-depth research before bashing something you have only glipsed at.
I dont understand your comment:
"How can these things be true, if God is not smart enough to help Jared?"
Could you please clarify? Where do you get the impression that the book is saying that God is not smart enough to help the Brother of Jared?
Last of all; it is widley understood from Biblical scholars that the "window" in Noahs ark was actually a glowing stone. Please do some in-depth research before bashing something you have only glipsed at.
Please tell me your joking?
How did noah allow birds to pass through a glowing stone?
Grorc you said Did you know that if the top hole is plugged and you open the bottom hole to, say clean out the boat or fish or whatever, that water will not come in. Neat design I think.
But notice what the BoM says
20 And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood.
It clearly says when water comes in, put the plug back in. Who do I believe, you or the BoM. If I believe the BoM then your wrong. If I believe you and the BoM is wrong, then your in need of some new scripture. Rick b
"Please tell me your joking?
How did noah allow birds to pass through a glowing stone?" I didnt say there were not doors or openings in the ark. All I said was that it was widley believed in Biblical Scholar circles that the window that is referred to in the Ark is a glowing stone. But of course these are people that use other sources in the world of other accounts and histories of the flood.
"It clearly says when water comes in, put the plug back in. Who do I believe, you or the BoM. If I believe the BoM then your wrong. If I believe you and the BoM is wrong, then your in need of some new scripture. Rick b "
I still dont understand. During a storm or rain, it is silly to think that water might come in the boat? What is your point? And like I said before, who are you to say how the Lord works with different people? So what if the boat isnt the same design. What does that prove?
"Then it adds the problem of, if you let in water one to many times, you simply will sink under water due to the water aboard the Barge. It also begs the question of, If the Barges are as light as a fowl upon the water, I don't recall ever once hearing about any birds, ducks or any other types of water fowl, simply just sinking into the water. So why did or do the barges go under water even for just a few minutes?"
What? Are you kidding? A small boat cannot be covered by a wave? You know, you are finding such trivial things to harp about in this book. Did you ever read it for the message it was trying to deliver? You know, just like the Bible the Book of Mormon was not designed to give an detailed account of the history of the world, but to prove to the world that Jesus is the Christ and that the only way to return to God is through Him.
There was only one flood, and only 8 people were saved through it. God told Noah how to build the ark. He did not forget how to build a vessel that would be seaworthy and logical. God is not the author of confusion. The flood was so cataclismic and tumultuous that it was only by God's grace that anyone survived, and it had to be His way. Just as in our salvation, it is only by His way, through Jesus Christ. Jared crossing a body of water would not be catastrophic. God would know what would lie ahead for Jared and would know the kind of vessel needed. I don't think the God of the universe would tell someone to build a barge that they could not breathe in, then "correct" Himself.
What?! The flood at the time of Noah and the crossing of the Jaradites is no where near the same time frame. Why, Shelli, are you comparing the two? The Jaradites are a completely different people. The Lord has told people to do different things at different times. He didnt have Moses build a boat, he was told to part the sea. Why didnt the Lord just tell Noah to part the sea? There is nothing wrong with the account of the Jaradite crossing and it has nothing to do with Noah and the flood.
Grorc - in order to clarify for you what I was trying to say: I was referring to God's ability to give instructions on seaworthy vessels to more than one person. It has nothing to do with the differing circumstances. God would not have told someone to make a barge they could not breathe in. He would have told them how to do it right from the beginning. If He could do it for Noah, He could do it for Jared.
The point also is not whether water would have come in, it is that if God could keep Noah and his family safe and dry, why couldn't He do it for Jared?
While it is true that we figure things out on our own, that is not necessarily how God intends for it to be. He wants us to come to Him for everything - to ask Him about which toaster to buy or socks to wear. It's not that we need to do it, He wants us to hang out with Him. He loves us.
Ummmm, what?! Being Mormon for over 40 years, I never heard or read that! God created the earth and everything in and on her, and you think he's not far more advanced than Mormons? you really think God could build, EARTH, but need help from a human that he CREATED in order to design a boat?! You do not speak for Mormons.
Hello Anon.
I dont speak for Mormons, I am not a Mormon.
And this story is taken from the Book of Mormon. You claim to be Mormon for 40 years and never read it? That tells me you dont read the Book of Mormon. That also tells me you probably are just making things up and posting them on my blog.
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