Wednesday, August 16, 2006

A different Gospel

Mormons say, they are Christians, I do not agree, they have a different Gospel and serve a different jesus, which is no god at all.


LDS Doctrines

Mormonism is at odds doctrinally with orthodox Christian faith in a multitude of ways. Here, however, we have included only a few core doctrines. These are not addressed in depth; they are instead presented very briefly as a list. For comparison and clarity the biblical position is also stated for each point of doctrine.

God

Mormonism teaches:

* There are many true Gods throughout the universe, but in this world we worship but one. (Book of Abraham 4:3ff)
* God the Father was once a man on another planet who achieved Godhood by obedience to laws and ordinances. (Achieving a Celestial Marriage Student Manual, 132)
* God is now an exalted Man of flesh and bones. (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22)

The Bible says:

* There is and ever will be only one God. (Isaiah 43:10, 11)
* God has eternally existed as God -- He is not a man. (Psalm 90:2; Psalm 50:21; Hosea 11:9)
* God is Spirit. (John 4:24; 1 Timothy 6:15, 16)

Trinity

Mormonism teaches:

* The doctrine of the Trinity is an invention of corrupted Christianity. (Evidences and Reconciliations 1:58)
* The Trinity is incomprehensible and therefore untrue. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 370, 372)
* The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three Gods, one in purpose only. (Church News 4 July 1998)

The Bible says:

* There is one God manifest in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. (Deuteronomy 6:4; Isaiah 44:8; Romans 1:7; John 1:1; Acts 5:1-4; Matthew 28:19)
* We are unable to comprehend God completely. (Job 11:7-9; Psalm 145:3)
* Father, Son and Holy Ghost--one God in essence or nature--are also one in purpose. (Ephesians 1:4-10)

Christ

Mormonism teaches:

* Jesus is the first-born spirit child of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother, and therefore the eldest spirit-brother of all mankind (Gospel Principles, 1988 edition, 9)
* Jesus is also the spirit-brother of Lucifer -- the devil (The Gospel Through the Ages, 15)
* Jesus was not always "a God," but reached perfection and a fullness of godhood after His resurrection (The Gospel Through the Ages, 51, 200; Ensign, November 1995, 87)

The Bible says:

* Jesus is eternally God, having existed as God forever (John 1:1-2, 14)
* Jesus created all things (including Lucifer) and therefore Satan's Creator, not his brother (John 1:1-3; Colossians 1:16-17; Ephesians 6:12)
* Jesus presented Himself to men as God during His earthly ministry (John 5:18, 10:30-33)

Humanity

Mormonism teaches:

* Humans are co-eternal with God, uncreated, having pre-existed in a spiritual world in the presence of Heavenly Father (Gospel Principles, 1988 edition, 9; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 353)
* Humans are of the same species as God -- "gods in embryo" (We Believe, 537; Achieving a Celestial Marriage Student Manual, 130)
* Adam's Fall was "a necessary step in the plan of life and a great blessing to all of us" (Gospel Principles, 1988 edition, 33)

The Bible says:

* Humans are created by God, having their beginning on earth, not in a spiritual realm (Zechariah 12:1; 1 Corinthians 15:46)
* God foreknew all humans before their birth (Jeremiah 1:5; Psalm 139:15-16)
* Humans, through faith, become children of God by virtue of adoption; they do not share a divine nature with God (Ephesians 1:5; Romans 8:16-17, 23; Galatians 3:26; Isaiah 46:9)
* Through Adam's Fall sin entered the world, bringing all humanity under condemnation and death; humans are now born with sinful natures and will be judged for the sins each commits individually (Ezekiel 18:1-20; Romans 5:12-21)

Temples

Mormonism teaches:

* Only worthy Mormons with temple recommends (special passes) are permitted inside dedicated LDS temples (Gospel Principles, 1988 edition, 235-236)
* The endowment ceremony provides temple patrons handshakes and passwords necessary for entrance into God's presence -- Heaven (Discourses of Brigham Young, 416)
* Marriages "sealed" in LDS temples bind the couple as husband and wife beyond the grave and are necessary for attainment of the best spiritual reward (We Believe, 548)
* Ordinances (baptisms, endowments, sealings) are performed for deceased people who had no opportunity to receive these ordinances while they were on earth, giving them opportunity to be "set free" in eternity (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 366-367)

The Bible says:

* The temple was a place for blood sacrifices and burnt offerings to be offered for the sins of God's people (Leviticus 1:1-3)
* Temple sacrifices foreshadowed the future sacrifice of Christ (Hebrews 10:1-9)
* Christ made the final and sufficient sacrifice for sin; there is no longer a need for an earthly temple (Hebrews 10:12-14)
* There is no chance for repentance after death (Hebrews 9:27; Psalm 49:7)

Salvation

Mormonism teaches:

* There are two kinds of salvation: General and Individual (Doctrines of Salvation, 1:160)
* General salvation (resurrection from the dead to judgment) is a free gift from God given to all as a result of Christ's atonement (Gospel Principles, 1988 edition, 68)
* Individual salvation (spending eternity in the presence of God) is attained by a combination of God's grace plus the individual's works (Gospel Principles, 1988 edition, 68-69)
* Christ's sacrificial atonement is not sufficient to cleanse the penitent from all sin -- there are some sins beyond the reach of the work of Christ and must be atoned for by the individual (Journal of Discourses 3:247)
* There are six levels of "glory" to which people are assigned after death (Doctrine and Covenants section 76; 131:1 )
* Those obtaining the highest level become Gods, create worlds and accept worship from their children (Doctrines of Salvation 2:48; The Seer, 37)

The Bible says:

* All people will be resurrected to face God's judgment and will be consigned to either Heaven or Hell for all eternity (Matthew 25:31-46)
* Salvation (i.e., redemption from sin and reconciliation to God) is a gift of God by grace through faith, not of works (Ephesians 2:8-10; Romans 3:21-26)
* Christ's sacrificial atonement is sufficient to cleanse believers from all sin (Hebrews 9:12; 1 John 1:7)
* Christ will be of no benefit to those who seek to gain salvation on their own merits (Galatians 5:1-6; Romans 3:10-20)
* There is but one true God and there never will be any others (Isaiah 43:10-11)
* Men will not receive worship in the eternal world, but instead will give worship to the only One who is worthy to receive it (Revelation 5:12-13)

Truth

Mormonism teaches:

* The only way to know spiritual truth is to ask God in prayer to reveal it through personal revelation (Moroni 10:4-5; The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, 63)
* This revelation comes in the form of a good feeling, sometimes described as a "burning in the bosom" (Uniform System for Teaching the Gospel, Instructions for the Discussions, 8)
* God gives truth a little at a time; therefore, the investigator need not learn the "deeper doctrines" before joining the LDS Church (Gospel Truth 2:8)

The Bible says:

* Feelings are deceptive and should not be trusted (Jeremiah 17:9; Proverbs 28:26; 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12)
* All spirits should not be believed, but must be tried and tested to see whether they are of God (1 John 4:1)
* Any proclamation of spiritual truth is to be measured against God's Word -- the Bible (Acts 17:11; 2 Timothy 2:15; Isaiah 8:20)
* The way to discern between true and false prophets is by applying God's tests give in the Bible (Deuteronomy 13:1-5, 18:20-22)
* Believers are not to withhold information, but instead are to always be ready to answer all questions about their faith and preach the full message of new life in Christ (1 Peter 3:15; Acts 5:20; 2 Corinthians 4:2)

Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints commonly use words and phrases also employed by Evangelical Christians. While the terminology may sound the same, the intended meanings are often quite different. Misunderstandings arise when words are not clearly understood, thus communication is severely hindered. In order that your discussions with a Latter-day Saint may be more productive, a short comparative list of terms is supplied below. While this list should help you better understand LDS vocabulary, it is always a good idea for all participants in a conversation to define their terms.

GODHEAD:

LDS--The unified "committee" of a Father god, his Son Jesus the Christ, and the Holy Ghost. Father god is a resurrected man with a physical body. Christ is a separate resurrected god with a physical body. The Holy Ghost is a separate god with only a spiritual body. These are three totally separate and distinct Gods.

BIBLE--A reference to the Trinity: One God eternally existent in three Persons, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. In addition, the Bible teaches God is not a man (Numbers 23:19); There is only one God (Isaiah 43:10-11; 44:6; 45:21-22); The Father is Spirit and invisible (John 4:24; 1 Timothy 1:17).

JESUS CHRIST:

LDS--A created being, the first spirit child of Elohim and one of his wives, the spirit brother of Lucifer the devil.

BIBLE--The eternal God manifested in the flesh; the One that created all things (John 1:1-3, 14).

HOLY GHOST:

LDS--A separate God from the Father and the Son; different from the Holy Spirit. The Holy Ghost is a person whereas the Holy Spirit is an influence from Father, not personal.

BIBLE--The same Greek word is used for Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 3:16; 6:19). He is the third Person of the one triune God.

VIRGIN BIRTH:

LDS--God, as a resurrected physical man, became the literal father of Jesus in the flesh. Christ was conceived in the same physical manner in which all mortals are conceived. (LDS contend that Matthew 1:18 is in error.)

BIBLE-- The Holy Ghost, without the participation of a human (or physically embodied) father, conceived Jesus in the womb of Mary (Matthew 1:18).

SCRIPTURE:

LDS--The Bible (with reservation) plus additional revelation from God found in the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. Words of latter-day Prophets are also recognized as scripture.

BIBLE--The Bible alone, which is infallible and without error, and the sole authority for all matters of Christian belief and practice (2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:3).

GOSPEL:

LDS--The Mormon church system and doctrines.

BIBLE--The message of Christ's death and resurrection as atonement for our sins (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Colossians 1:22-23).

FALL:

LDS--Adam's transgression which brought mortality and physical death to humanity, but not a fallen nature. Adam was given two conflicting commandments and chose the correct one to obey.

BIBLE--The event in which Adam and Eve disobeyed the explicit command of God, bringing sin and death onto the human race. As a consequence of the Fall, humans are alienated from God and in need of a Savior. In addition, the Bible teaches God tempts no one (James 1:13-14); Man is sinful in his very nature (Romans 8:5-8; 1 Corinthians 2:14).

SIN:

LDS--Specific acts, not man's basic nature.

BIBLE--The fundamental unbelief, distrust and rejection of God as God. The Bible presents sin as both fallen humanity's state of separation and alienation from God and as an individual's purposeful disobedience to God's will. In addition, the Bible teaches we are in spiritual rebellion until conversion (Ephesians 2:3-5; Romans 5:21); We do not just commit sins, we are by nature sinful (Matthew 1:21).

REPENTANCE:

LDS--Repentance of individual acts, not of sinful nature. To repent, one must feel sincere sorrow for his sins, stop sinning and keep the commandments of God. Some serious sins also require confession to LDS priesthood authority. True repentance is evidenced by the person never committing the same sin again; if he does, it is evidence that he did not truly repent and so his former sin returns to him.

BIBLE--A deep sense that the worst thing about one's sin is that it has offended a holy God. Repentance involves turning from sin to Christ, with a sincere desire to live in obedience to His leading. It is an attitude of the heart. In addition, the Bible teaches one must repent of basic rebellion toward God (Jeremiah 17:9; Luke 5:32).

ATONEMENT--SALVATION BY GRACE:

LDS--Universal resurrection, also known as salvation by grace, brought about by Christ's suffering in the Garden of Gethsemane and death on the Cross. Beyond resurrection, man must earn his own place in heaven.

BIBLE--Refers to God's act of dealing with the primary human problem of sin, which has broken the relationship between God and humankind. God accomplished the way of restoration through Christ's sacrificial death on the Cross. Salvation is not universal, but based on each individual's relationship with Jesus, being given as a free gift of grace to those who trust in Christ alone (Romans 1:16: Hebrews 9:28: Ephesians 2:8-9).

BORN AGAIN:

LDS---Baptism into the LDS church.

BIBLE--Refers to our spiritual rebirth through faith, having previously been dead in our sins (1 Peter 1:23; 2 Corinthians 5:17).

REDEEMED:

LDS---Redemption from mortal death only, not sinful rebellion or spiritual death. See Atonement-Salvation By Grace.

BIBLE--Redemption through Christ from more than mortal death. He redeems us from spiritual death (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:1).

ETERNAL LIFE:

LDS--Exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom with the ability to eternally bear children in heaven. Requires an LDS temple marriage.

BIBLE--Dwelling forever in the presence of God, a free gift given to all who believe. No mention of parenthood or marriage (John 14:2; Matthew 22:30).

HEAVEN:

LDS--The eternal dwelling place of deceased humans, divided into three kingdoms: Celestial, Terrestrial and Telestial with a place for almost everyone (misuse of 1 Corinthians 15:40-41).

BIBLE--The eternal dwelling place of the redeemed. The Bible does not mention various levels of heaven. Rather, there are only two post-mortal conditions: everlasting punishment or life eternal (Matthew 25:31-46).

HELL:

LDS--An eternal institution where deceased people pay for their mortal sins; inmates come and go as in jail, they do not spend eternity there. They stay until their debt to God has been paid in full.

BIBLE--A place of eternal conscious punishment for the wicked. There is no indication that people will ever be released from Hell (Revelation 21:8; Matthew 13:24-43; 47-50; Luke 16:26).

TRUE CHURCH:

LDS--The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. All other churches are corrupt to greater or lesser degrees.

BIBLE--The community of all true believers for all time. The Bible does not recognize an institution or denomination as God's church, but defines it as being comprised of people -- those who have been redeemed by Christ's blood (1 Corinthians 12:12-14; Matthew 16:18; 18:19-20).

PRE-EXISTENCE:

LDS--The premortal period of time between the birth of spirit children to God and their birth into mortal life. Everyone pre-existed before life on earth. All have existed eternally.

BIBLE--Refers to Christ as the only pre-existent One (John 8:58; Colossians 1:17). For humans there is no spiritual existence prior to mortality (1 Corinthians 15:46).

AUTHORITY/PRIESTHOOD:

LDS--The power and authority of God given to men to act in things pertaining to the LDS Church and salvation. Only LDS have authority to baptize, ordain, and so forth. In the LDS Church there is a two-part system of priesthood: Melchizedek and Aaronic.

BIBLE--Refers to the priesthood of believers which is the privilege and freedom of all believing Christians to stand before God in personal communion through Christ, directly receiving forgiveness without the need for human intermediaries. In addition, the Bible teaches Christ brought an end to the Aaronic priesthood and He is the ONLY High Priest after the order of Melchizedek (Hebrews 5:10; 1 Peter 2:5).

Adapted from "Terminology Differences" by Jerald and Sandra Tanner

9 comments:

Spidey4Christ said...

I'd have to agree as well. Foul language is not needed and I saw foul language in your post, baker.

Anonymous said...

Anyone that claims to be Christian needs to hold those basic tenants outlined above including: There is only one God, Jesus is not a created Being, Died on Cross for all sin, Rose from the Dead, Belief in Christ is the only way to be saved [not works of men].

Those that profess differences from these are not Christian, no matter what they say. Even muslims claim Jesus was a great prophet-it does not make them Christians, because they teach a different Christ just like Mormons do.

Christianity is not a church, a denomonation, it is the voluntary submission to God and belief in Jesus as the only way to receive eternal life and the transformation of a believer through and by the power of God.[Reader's Digest Version]

rick b said...

Hello jonathan,
Please feel free to reply to other topics. It is nice to see other people reply with truth.

Ed, Get over yourself, I answered your question, Other even stated they understood my reply to you. If you dont like my Answer then I will not reply with an answer that you want to hear, and go againt the truth for you.

You claim it is not about Doctrine, Then what is it about, Truth verses fiction, or Truth verses your feelings. Did you not read your Bible? I know you cxlaim you do, How about you do two word searches, One on Doctrine, and follow the Context, the Second is, Denomonations. You wont find that one. Rick b

Wer62 said...

Again Rick,

It is sad you will not stand by your own words. You make a claim that Mormons are not Christians based on your belief in doctrine. A belief in which is NOT true. It is not about "my feelings" it is about the facts.

If doctrinal differences are the key to calling someone a Christian then you *MUST* exclude anyone that does not believe exactly as you do on every doctrinal point.

There are other protestent groups for example that do not hold to the Trinity as outlined in your topic here. Are they NON CHRISTIAN too..

Just so Johnathan can know my postion as stated on my blog is I hold that all Churches hold some truth as it concerning Christ. Therefore anyone proclaiming to follow Christ is a Christian. I am excluding NO ONE from this. You guys on the other hand use doctrine to exclude Mormons but are you willing to go so far in your belief to exclude others that are closer but not exactly like you?

Johnathan, You don't seem to know anything about Mormons. You claim we believe works saves us, we do not. We believe we must work but it is for the Lord. In fact the LORD himself is quoted more often on works than he is on grace. We will be judged on our works, it clearly says that in the Bible you and I both read. Yet the Bible also says that we cannnot work our way to heaven and I/Mormons believe that too. We are to work to our ability for the Lord and he died on the cross because NO ONE is perfect, and NO ONE can work there way on their own. This is what I mean by twisted comments about the LDS Church. Works are required as in the scriptures say "Faith without works is Dead" You do believe your Bible don't you?

So again, the question is not about doctrinal differnces in Christianity as defined by Websters as those that follow Christ but moreover are you willing to call everyone else non Chrisian in the process.

We believe Jesus "Died on Cross for all sin{s}", We believe Jesus "Rose from the Dead", We have a "Belief in Christ is the only way to be saved". These things you deny us. So, since we believe all these things and more what does that say about you for judging so harshly on something you really have no understanding of?

Sure we have some doctrinal differences but doesn't all religoius groups? To state we are a different gospel and are NON Christian based on that you again *MUST* make that claim of anyone that does not "exactly" believe as you do. Period..

Wer62

Anonymous said...

I know much about the Mormon Faith. I was raised by it for the first two decades of my life. I know Mormonism. It is not the same faith that I now have, Since I have been born again by confession of Faith in Jesus as my Lord as Savior.

It is hard to explain in words. Mormonism in a nutshell is about achieving enough in this life in order to get God's attention so one can then receive salvation from God. Yes, Jesus is the only way-but Let me ask one question, If I deny Joseph Smith, Jr. as a prophet, Can I get to heaven?

Christianity is about admitting that no matter how hard you try, by yourself, nothing will ever be good enough...Repenting from spitting on the sidewalk, attending the temple ...You need a Savior to do all the saving it is not your effort but His that saves...

rick b said...

Ed, I dont care what the Dictionary Defenition of Christian is. The Dictionary is nothing but mans ideas.

Then As I said before, Call yourself whatever denomonation you want, they are of man and from man, Did God create Denomnations? No he did not, It is sinful man who created them.

Then As I said before, Whoever denys the teachings of the Bible is not a believer. In other words, How can you say, I dont agree with what the Bible says, I think it is wrong in one or many points, But then go onto say, I follow Christ.

If you call his word wrong, then you call him a liar, so how can you then claim to believe in him and follow him? Psalms 138:2 says, God puts HIS WORD ABOVE HIS NAME.

If he is that serious about his word, Yet we humans say I dont believe his word or trust his word, how then can we be sure it is from him? You simply dont like my Answer.

Then dont try and tell us, LDS dont believe works dont save. What about, The things REQUIRED TO ENTER THE TEMPLE. If we dont enter the temple we have no chance at the 3rd heaven, IE GodHood. Bruce M, even taught ANYTHING LESS THAN EXALATION (3RD HEAVEN) Is damnation.



The Prophet Spencer Kimball Achieving a Celestial Marriage manual pg 30 makes it very clear we must do certain things to enter the temple to be saved. he gives a list of 6 things called (TEMPLE RECOMMEND INTERVIEW). it says When you are interviewed for a temple recommend you will be asked about,
1. Church attendance
2. Payment of tithes and offerings
3. Loyalty to Church leaders.
4. Moral cleanliness.
5. overall faithfulness and worthiness.
6. Obedience to the Word of Wisdom.

Notice it says "Obedience to the Word of Wisdom." Yet Many LDS members do not follow this. Also we read in Gospel Principles pg 125: WE MUST KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD. To make our repentance complete we must keep the commandments of the Lord (see D and C 1:32). we are not fully repentant if we do not pay tithes or keep the sabbath day holy or obey the word of wisdom. we are not repentant if we don't sustain the authorities of the church and don't love the lord and our fellow man. Yet again many LDS do not meet this requirement.

Ed, Dont tell me this is not WORKS, Your prophet spoke it. Rick b

Wer62 said...

jonathan said...
If I deny Joseph Smith, Jr. as a prophet, Can I get to heaven?

Wer62 Replies:
Short Answer is YES.

jonathan said...
Since I have been born again by confession of Faith in Jesus as my Lord as Savior.

Wer62 Replies:
Let me guess, you belive Faith Alone Grace Alone saves you! Keep in mind the Protestant position is a minority viewpoint. You will tell me that I am out of teaching with the "mainstream" christian religion based on the fact we do not believe in Faith Alone Grace Alone doctrine. We believe we must have faith and we believe in the saving grace of Christ but we also believe that some works must be performed. The scripture clearly state in James "Faith without works is desd". The Catholic and Eastern Orthodox faith systems both are contrary to the "modern" fatih alone grace alone philosophy.

The question that should be asked is "how is Christ's grace appropriated?" or "What must we do to take advantage of the grace made possible by the Atonement?"

Catholic and Protestant salvation is mutually exclusive. The Catholic Church asserts that the Protestant doctrine of salvation is in error.

A critique of Martin Luther by the Catholic church states the following: "The Church [Catholic] teaches that God is "just" in the simlest sense of the term, that is to say, He disributes His graces to us all in an equitable manner, and not by virtue of a kind of incomprehensible caprice. She [The Catholic Church] teaches that salvation and eternal bliss are earned in the world through positive effort and good works. She does indeed proclaim the indispensability of the love of God and union with Christ, a suernatural resemblance. Faith is but the beginning of Justification. It is completed by reception of the sacraments, in the act of contrition and the act of charity. Salvation demands much more than mere belief. [Hardon 288-289, emphasis added]

Moreover, according to Catholic teachings, to be saved a person must be baptized into the Church and remain a faithful member there after, unless that person was unaware that these tings were requirements for salvation [Hardon 234-236; Second Vatican Council 14]

Catholicism's view of salvation is fairly close to the early church's and Mormonism's.

As for Eastern Orthodoxy, Orthodox theologians have made it clear that they, too regard Protestant as false and unbiblical. In specific reference to the Church's all important rold in a person's salvation, Orthodox theologian Athanasios Frangopolulos has declared: "We should avoid at all costs the heretical teachings and opinions of Pretestants and the Papists [Catholics], of the Uniats and teh Ecuminists, and finally those of the fearful Jehovah's Witnesses" He continues "Which is Christ's true Church? This question is both natural and neccessary; Why? Because we notice that there are many communitiesand confessions and many sects that call themselves Christians and claim the title of being a Church. ... Which of these is the Church of Christ?

We have a great differnence with the Protestanst over the Sacrament of repentance and confession ... They pay no heed to the words of the Lord with which He instituted the Sacrament and gave to His desciples the power to forgive sins.

On this point [the importance of good works for salvation] we must state that we Orthodox greatly differ from the Protestants who by wrongly interpreting certain passages from Holy Scripture, reject good works altogehter."

While Mormonism, Catholicism, and Eastern Orthodox disagree over some of the sacraments needed for salvation, all agree that there are certain works a person "must" do in order to be saved. Good works will automatically follow as a result of being "SAVED"!!! This is the LDS position. Works while required are a result of following Christ.

Now you are going to say that we don't believe that we must profess our sins to Christ. We do, and I agree with your initial statement about Faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, but that is just the start. With that faith comes knowledge and with greater knowledge comes greater responsibility. We must do those things the Lord commands us to do. [call them rules if you like] I prefer to call them commandments. We must attempt to love our neighbor for example, now that is NOT always possible and we have repentance for that but we must make the attempt. We will be held accountable if we do not repent. This is an area I believe Rick to be strong in although I think he is misguided I do believe that HE believes he is doing the most loving thing for us Mormons. Rick even claims he was called to do this. Your doctrine says that you can totally ignore the calling and ingnore repentance and still be saved. Sorry it doesn't work like that. Once saved always saved is not doctrine either.

Enough for tonight this is starting to become a book and most likely not be read.

I bid you all a good night and good tidings in Christ.

Wer62

Anonymous said...

Actually In short the Blood of Christ saves me. My acceptance and belief in Jesus is the marvelous work and wonder that I preform.

The marvelous work and wonder that Christ did on the cross was to take my punishment for my sin nature and disobedient acts and pay my debt.

By the way, majority rule does not equal truth. If most people believe the sky is red it does not make it so. The sky is still blue.

To answer your response of Grace being dispensed equally consider your own belief in water baptism as washing away the sins of a follower. The child baptized at 8 has fewer sins to wash away than the convert who is 65 years old. Which one needs it more? [I do not consider water baptism as washing away my sins, only the Blood of Jesus can wash away sins]

Faith in Jesus is not only the begining, it is the middle and the end. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the light". He did not say, "I am the begining of the way, then the rest is up to you."

Sacraments. What do sacraments do? They remind us of Jesus, they point us to God. Their purpose has always been to remind us to commune with God as people set apart for God and his Kingdom. They do not save us. They remind us we are saved, or need salvation.

rick b said...

Hello Jonathan,
Hey, can you please write me at my Hotmail accout that I have listed in my profile. I want to ask you a few things. Thanks, Rick b