I am taking a break from the youtube 7 part story. It seems fox news did a story about asking 21 questions to the LDS church, here is the link, 21 questions
I will post the question asked, the answer given from the LDS church then my answer to the question. This link was sent to me by the pastor of my Church, he wanted my thoughts so he could then forward it on to other pastors. This is so long I do not know yet if I will keep it in two parts or turn it into 3.
Unless otherwise stated, I own all the books I quote from or mention as a source of reference.
Q: Why do some call the Church a cult?
A: For the most part, this seems to stem from a lack of understanding about the Church and its core doctrines and beliefs. Under those circumstances it is too easy to label a religion or other organization that is not well-known with an inflammatory term like 'cult.' Famed scholar of religion Martin Marty has said a cult means a church you don't personally happen to like. We don't believe any organization should be subjected to a label that has come to be as pejorative as that one.
Rick's Reply.
The LDS church is a Cult because they deny the Deity of Jesus Christ. The LDS church has taught that Jesus is just one god and their are millions of Gods. One place this is taught is in the Journal Of Discourses, (J.O.D) Volume 6:1-11 Known among Mormons as the King Follet Discourse. The LDS church denys the Trinity also, they teach that Jesus is one of 3 gods. They teach that the Christian Trinity is really the godhead made up of 3 gods. Sadly Joseph Smith at on time denied the Holy Spirit, He taught the Holy Spirit was the Mind of God, that teaching is found in the Oringal Lecture on Faith.
Q: Does the Mormon Church believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God?
A: Mormons believe Jesus Christ is literally the Son of God, the Savior and Redeemer, who died for the sins of humankind and rose from the dead on the third day with an immortal body. God, the Father, also has an immortal body.
Ricks Reply.
The Answer the LDS church gave is the standard answer, Here is what they seem to forget to tell you. While they believe Jesus did die on the Cross, they believe the Atonement really took place in the Garden when Jesus sweated great drops of blood. I do not own this book for the source.
( On page fourteen of his book, "Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson," the thirteenth president of the LDS Church stated it was in the Garden of Gethsemane that Christ "suffered as only as God would suffer, bearing our griefs, carrying our sorrows, being wounded for our transgressions, voluntarily submitting Himself to the iniquity of us all, just as Isaiah prophesied."
He further stated on that same page: "It was in Gethsemane that Jesus took on Himself the sins of the world, in Gethsemane that His pain was equivalent to the cumulative burden of all men, in Gethsemane that He descended below all things so that all could repent and come to Him" (Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, pg.15).
I read the BoM and Doctrine and Covenants, here is what I found in my reading.
We find in 2 Nephi 2:19 and Alma 42:2 only speaking about Adam and Eve getting thrown out of the garden. And Helaman 7:10 and 9:8,11 speaking about Nephi's garden No mention of the Shedding of Blood for our sins. But we Do read about the Cross or Christ being crucified on the cross for our Sins in the BoM and D and C here in these verses.
Mosiah 3:8-9
Helman 8:14-15 and 14:13-21
3 Nephi 11:14-17 and 20:44 and 27:14 and 28:6-7
Mormon 3:21
Ether 4:1
Moroni 5:1-2 and 10:33
then over in D and C in this long list of verses.
18:11-12 20:23 20:79 21:9 27:2 35:2 45:4,51,52 53:2 76:39,41,69 110:3-5
Q: Does the Church believe in the divinity of Jesus?
A: Mormons believe Jesus Christ is literally the Son of God, the Savior and Redeemer, who died for the sins of humankind and rose from the dead on the third day with an immortal body. God, the Father, also has an immortal body.
Ricks reply.
This was pretty much answered in the above questions.
Q: Does the Church believe that God is a physical being?
A: Mormons believe Jesus Christ is literally the Son of God, the Savior and Redeemer, who died for the sins of humankind and rose from the dead on the third day with an immortal body. God, the Father, also has an immortal body.
Ricks Reply
Mormon Doctrine teaches that God has a body of flesh and bones:
D and C 130:22
Articles of Faith. pg 43
Mormon scripture teaches that God is a spirit:
Alma 18:26-28 and 22:9-11.
The Bible teaches that God is a Spirit:
John 4:24
Luke 24:39
Jeremiah 23:24
Psalms 139:7-10
Q: If so, does the Church believe that God lives on a planet named Kolob?
A: 'Kolob' is a term found in ancient records translated by Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith did not provide a full description or explanation of Kolob nor did he assign the idea particular significance in relation to the Church’s core doctrines.
Q: Where is the planet Kolob? What significance does the planet have to Mormons?
A: 'Kolob' is a term found in ancient records translated by Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith did not provide a full description or explanation of Kolob nor did he assign the idea particular significance in relation to the Church’s core doctrines.
Ricks Reply.
The LDS reply is about what they believe, but their is more information found in their book, The Pearl of great price. This is the 4th book in their standerd works. Here is what is found in the pearl of great price.
1.
Abr. 3: 3-4, 9, 16
3 And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.
4 And the Lord said unto me, by the Urim and Thummim, that Kolob was after the manner of the Lord, according to its times and seasons in the revolutions thereof; that one revolution was a day unto the Lord, after his manner of reckoning, it being one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest. This is the reckoning of the Lord’s time, according to the reckoning of Kolob.
9 And thus there shall be the reckoning of the time of one planet above another, until thou come nigh unto Kolob, which Kolob is after the reckoning of the Lord’s time; which Kolob is set nigh unto the throne of God, to govern all those planets which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.
16 If two things exist, and there be one above the other, there shall be greater things above them; therefore Kolob is the greatest of all the Kokaubeam that thou hast seen, because it is nearest unto me.
2.
Abr. 5: 13
13 But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the time that thou eatest thereof, thou shalt surely die. Now I, Abraham, saw that it was after the Lord’s time, which was after the time of Kolob; for as yet the Gods had not appointed unto Adam his reckoning.
Q: Does the Mormon Church believe that God and Mary had physical sex to conceive Jesus?
A: The Church does not claim to know how Jesus was conceived but believes the Bible and Book of Mormon references to Jesus being born of the Virgin Mary.
Ricks Reply.
For the most part, this is a flat out lie. With that said, let me add this, Not every LDS Believes this and not every LDS has seen the LDS teachings that show otherwise. So here are some LDS teachings on this.
He [God] created man, as we create our children; for there is no other process of creation in heaven, on the earth, in the earth, or under the earth, or in all the eternities, that is, that were, or that ever will be. (BY, J.O.D 11:122).
The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood--was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers (BY, J.O.D 8:115).
In relation to the way in which I look upon the works of God and his creatures, I will say that I was naturally begotten; so was my father, and also my Saviour Jesus Christ. According to the Scriptures, he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh, and there was nothing unnatural about it (HK, J.O.D 8:211).
When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost....
...Now, remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. I will repeat a little anecdote. I was in conversation with a certain learned professor upon this subject, when I replied, to this idea"if the Son was begotten by the Holy Ghost, it would be very dangerous to baptize and confirm females, and give the Holy Ghost to them, lest he should beget children, and be palmed upon the Elders by the people, bringing the Elders into great difficulties" (BY, J.O.D 1:50-51)
When the time came that His first-born, the Saviour, should come into the world and take a tabernacle, the Father came Himself and favoured that spirit with a tabernacle instead of letting any other man do it. The Saviour was begotten by the Father of His spirit, by the same Being who is the Father of our spirits, and that is all the organic difference between Jesus Christ and you and me (BY, J.O.D 4:218)
...but it was the personage of the Father who begat the body of Jesus; and for this reason Jesus is called the Only Begotten of the Father; that is, the only one in this world whose fleshly body was begotten by the Father. There were millions of sons and daughters whom He begat before the foundation of the world, but they were spirits, and not bodies of flesh and bones; whereas, both the spirit and body of Jesus were begotten by the Father the spirit having been begotten in heaven many ages before the tabernacle was begotten upon the earth. The fleshly body of Jesus required a Mother as well as a Father. Therefore, the Father and Mother of Jesus, according to the flesh, must have been associated together in the capacity of Husband and Wife; hence the Virgin Mary must have been, for the time being, the lawful wife of God the Father: we use the term lawful Wife, because it would be blasphemous in the highest degree to say that He overshadowed her or begat the Saviour unlawfully. It would have been unlawful for any man to have interfered with Mary, who was already espoused to Joseph; for such a heinous crime would have subjected both the guilty parties to death, according to the law of Moses. But God having created all men and women, had the most perfect right to do with His own creation, according to His holy will and pleasure; He had a lawful right to overshadow the Virgin Mary in the capacity of a husband, and beget a Son, although she was espoused to another; for the law which He gave to govern men and women was not intended to govern Himself, or to prescribe rules for his own conduct. It was also lawful in Him, after having thus dealt with Mary, to give Mary to Joseph her espoused husband. Whether God the Father gave Mary to Joseph for time only, or for time and eternity, we are not informed. Inasmuch as God was the first husband to her, it may be that He only gave her to be the wife of Joseph while in this mortal state, and that He intended after the resurrection to again take her as one of his own wives to raise up immortal spirits in eternity (OP, The Seer, p. 158).
CHRIST NOT BEGOTTEN OF HOLY GHOST. I believe firmly that Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God in the flesh. He taught this doctrine to his disciples. He did not teach them that He was the Son of the Holy Ghost, but the Son of the Father....Christ was begotten of God. He was not born without the aid of Man, and that Man was God! (JFS, DoS 1:18).
Under the topic "Only Begotten Son" in Mormon Doctrine, Bruce R. McConkie wrote,
These name-titles all signify that our Lord is the only Son of the Father in the flesh. Each of the words is to be understood literally. Only means only; Begotten means begotten; and Son means son. Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers (pp. 546-547).
God the Father is a perfected, glorified, holy Man, an immortal Personage. And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the Son of God, and that designation means what it says. (1 Ne. 11) (Ibid. p. 742).
James E. Talmage, Jesus the Christ, Ch.3, p.22
What other man has lived with power to withstand death, over whom death could not prevail except through his own submission? Yet Jesus Christ could not be slain until His "hour had come," and that, the hour in which He voluntarily surrendered His life, and permitted His own decease through an act of will. Born of a mortal mother He inherited the capacity to die; begotten by an immortal Sire He possessed as a heritage the power to withstand death indefinitely. He literally gave up His life; to this effect is His own affirmation: "Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again." And further: "For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself." Only such a One could conquer death; in none but Jesus the Christ was realized this requisite condition of a Redeemer of the world.
James E. Talmage, Jesus the Christ, Ch.25, p.418 - p.419
With effective repetition Jesus continued: "I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep." For this cause was Jesus the Father's Beloved Son -- that He was ready to lay down His life for the sake of the sheep. That the sacrifice He was soon to render was in fact voluntary, and not a forfeiture under compulsion, is solemnly affirmed in the Savior's words: "Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." The certainty of His death and of His subsequent resurrection are here reiterated. A natural effect of His immortal origin, as the earth-born Son of an immortal Sire, was that He Was immune to death except as He surrendered thereto. The life of Jesus the Christ could not be taken save as He willed and allowed. The power to lay down His life was inherent in Himself, as was the power to take up His slain body in an immortalized state. These teachings caused further division among the Jews. Some pretended to dispose of the matter by voicing anew the foolish assumption that Jesus was but an insane demoniac, and that therefore His words were not worthy of attention. Others with consistency said "These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?" So it was that a few believed, many doubted though partly convinced, and some condemned.
Bruce R. McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol.3, p.138
The express image of his person] What more need be said? God the Eternal Father is the Father; the Son of God is the Son. A father is a father, and a son is a son. The Father begets; the Son is begotten; they are Parent and Child; Sire and Son look alike, so much so that they are the express image of each other's persons. The substance composing the body of one is identical in appearance to that composing the body of the other. What could be plainer?
Bruce R. McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol.3, p.141
Begotten] Begotten means begotten; it means Christ's mortal body was procreated by an Eternal Sire; it means God is the Father of Christ, "after the manner of the flesh." (1 Ne. 11:18.)
Q: Does the Mormon Church believe Jesus appeared in North America after his crucifixion and resurrection?
A: The appearance of Jesus in the Western Hemisphere shortly after his resurrection is described in the Book of Mormon. Mormons believe that when Christ told his disciples in the Bible He had other 'sheep' who should receive his message he was referring to those people in the Western Hemisphere.
Q: If so, when did this happen? And under what circumstances?
A: The appearance of Jesus in the Western Hemisphere shortly after his resurrection is described in the Book of Mormon. Mormons believe that when Christ told his disciples in the Bible He had other 'sheep' who should receive his message he was referring to those people in the Western Hemisphere.
Ricks Reply.
For the most part they do believe this, otherwise theirs not much to it.
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Hey Bot,
Baptism has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I did a topic on LDS and Baptism, please refer to that.
As to the Topic of the Trinity, I covered that in great detail, please read that also.
As a matter of fact, almost every issue you address has been covered on my blog. And no LDS are not Christian, Gal 1:8-9 Rick b
Then you do not know what a Christian is...it is a believer in what Christ taught. End of story. You are caught up in semantics...which should be embarrassing for you. Anyone who believes and tries to follow Christ's teachings is a Christian, whatever their religion. Why is that so hard to swallow?
Lila,
Your the one that should be embarrassed. You really have no clue what your church teaches or what the Bible says.
I bet your one of those hit and run posters. You will never be back because you could not defend what you believe.
JS said God told Him all churchs are wrong except for what He believes. The BoM says their are two churchs only, The Church of the devil and the real church. So if I am not LDS then I am of the church of the devil.
Then why is it LDS can claim they are christian, yet Christians cannot dress up like LDS missionary's with an elder badge, claim we are from the Church of latter day saints and give out the gospel we believe of, Grace alone, one God only, trinity, Etc.
LDS tell me I cannot do that. If you claim I cannot either, then that makes you a hypocrite to what you just said and taught. But if you say I can, then you will be the First LDS in History to claim other wise, and I will quote you on it and send LDS to your websites asking you about it.
So which is it, I can do that, or your a clueless hypocrite?
Why can LDS claim to be christian, yet FLDS and RLDS and many other LDS offshoot groups try and claim they are LDS get told by LDS they really are not?
Are you really willing to debate these subjects and more? I say your not. I bet I will never hear from you again, why? Because you dont really have a clue about what your church teaches and believes.
For everyone and anyone who reads this, I just want to say, I posted a reply to Lila T on her blog stating I left her a reply and am waiting to here from her. I guess I was correct, she cannot defended her faith, and his a hypocrite and does not know what her church teaches.
She claims we are all believers and follow the same God, Yet here is a quote from HER PROPHET saying we dont in fact have the same God.
As a Church, we have critics--many of them.
They say we do not believe in the traditional Christ of Christianity.
There is some substance to what they say. Our Faith, our Knowledge,
is not based on ancient tradition..Our faith, our knowledge comes of the witness of a prophet in this dispensation...
April 2002 General Conference.
So before You LDS come here and tell me I dont have a clue, you better research what you church said and be ready to either back it up, or be told your a liar, hypocrite and dont really care about the truth.
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