Anti's and Hyprocrites

I want to take a look at how LDS seem to feel anyone who tries to examine mormonism is labeled an ANTI-MORMON. I feel that the logic the LDS use to say that people are Anti-Mormon should be applied to them as well. I feel many, not all, but many LDS are bothANTI-Christian, as well as hypocrites. Here is why I say this.

Webster's dictionary defines "ANTI" as one who opposes a group, policy, practice, or proposal.

Even the B.O.M is Anti-Christian. Read

1 Nephi 14:10: Behold there are save two Churches only; the one is the Church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the Church of the Devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the Church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great Church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.

Someone please tell me how this is not Anti-Christian. Now let's look at some things the LDS Prophets/Presidents of old have said about us Christians. I quote

B Young: "with a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199). I quote 3rd president John Taylor (Brigham Young quotes Mr Taylor) "Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell, the eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and kicked onto the earth" (J.O.D 6:176). I quote Heber C. Kimball "Christians - those poor, miserable priests brother Brigham was speaking about - some of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth" (J.O.D 5:89).

Now, if people are really honest with themselves here, we reversed this, and had Christians said about the LDS, "they are the biggest whoremasters on the earth," "their religeon was hatched in hell," etc., they would cry out for our blood. Why is it they can say this about us? But yet, when we examine what they believe, we are attacked? Many LDS have even tried to get around the issue of the 1st Nephi quote, "there are only two churches." The LDS know that when the B.O.M speaks about the true church being the Lamb of God, it speaks about their church. So it would stand to reason, ANY church that is not LDS related does or could fall under the Church of the Devil.

In the Book Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R. McConkie, page 137-138, under Church of the devil, he says just what I said. I quote Mr. McConkie,

The titles church of the devil and great and abominable church are used to identify ALL CHURCHESor organizations of whatever name or nature-whether political, philosophical, educational, economic, social, fraternal, civic, or religious-which are designed to take men on a course that leads away from God and his laws and thus from salvation in the kingdom of God.

Bruce goes on to say, under the same heading and page,

Any churchor organization of any kind whatever which satisfies the innate religious longings of man and keeps him from coming to the saving truths of Christ and his gospel is therefore not of God.
Hence we find our Lord saying,

"he that is not with me is againt me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad."(Matthew.12:30)

And hence we find Alma inviting the wicked to repent and join the true Chruch of Christ and become the sheep of the Good Shepherd.

"And now if ye are not the sheep of the good shepherd, of what fold are ye? he asks. "Behold, I say unto you, that the devil is your shepherd, and ye are of his fold; and know, who can deny this? Behold, I say unto you, whosoever denieth this is a liar and a child of the devil"(Alma 5:39; Jos. Smith 2:19.)

Sometimes I really believe, Mormons either do not know what their scriptures teach, or they really don't care. Read

Jacob 1:19: if we do not teach the word of God with all diligence, then the blood of the people will be upon our heads.

This verse states if we do not teach the word of God, the blood of the people will be on our heads. Well, if I really believe the Mormons are deceived, and try and tell them, I get labeled as an Anti. Then add to that,

Alma 26:29-30 29: And we have entered into their houses and taught them, and we have taught them in their streets; yea, and we have taught them upon their hills; and we have also entered into their temples and their synagogues and taught them; and we have been cast out, and mocked, and spit upon, and smote upon our cheeks; and we have been stoned, and taken and bound with strong cords, and cast into prison; and through the power and wisdom of God we have been delivered again. 30: And we have suffered all manner of afflictions, and all this, that perhaps we might be the means of saving some soul; and we supposed that our joy would be full if perhaps we could be the means of saving some.

The verses in Alma are clear, Mormons went to people and taught them.

This goes along with Articles of Faith - Number 11

11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

What is really sad here, is, if I witness to Mormons, I get attacked as an Anti-Mormon. Yet they, according to their scripture, take it to the people and teach them. But according to A of F #11, they say they allow people to worship how, who and where they like. Yet if we use a little logic, we find this is not really true. Here's why. If the LDS come to me and share their gospel with me, even though they might not come out and be so bold as to tell me what I believe is wrong, like I do with them, it stands to reason, If I believe what they teach me or tell me, then I must be wrong. We cannot both be correct. Either my belief is true or theirs is. We can't both be right, especially if our beliefs are vastly different.
Here is more LDS scripture they seem to forget about.
In the Pearl of Great Price, under

Joseph Smith 2:18-19, it says, “18: My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right and which I should join.19: I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the personage who addressed me said that ALL THEIR CREEDS WERE AN ABOMINATION IN HIS SIGHT; THAT THOSE PROFESSORS WERE ALL CORRUPT; THAT THEY DRAW NEAR TO ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEARTS ARE FAR FROM ME, THEY TEACH FOR DOCTRINES THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN, HAVING A FORM OF GODLINESS, BUT THEY DENY THE POWER THEREOF.”

In verse 17 it is God the Father and the Son speaking about the state of the Christian Church to Joseph Smith. We as believers are not attacking, we are just responding to Joseph Smith’s statement about our church. Now, here is something the Prophet/President said, I do this, but also find it rather intestering a Prophet would say this.

Read pg. 188 of

Doctrines of Salvation vol. 1, I quote Joseph F Smith. "CHURCH STANDS OR FALLS WITH JOSEPH SMITH. MORMONISM, as it is called, must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. He was either a prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. There is no middle ground. If Joseph Smith was a deceiver, who willfully attempted to mislead the people, then he should be exposed: his claims should be rufuted, and his doctrines shown to be false".

Read also

D and C 71:5-11 98:14,23-26: it says meet your enemy in public. If I am your enemy, which I don't feel I am, it says meet me in public to talk about these things. Jesus said, "Love your enemy." D and C 66:7 68:1,9 says to go into the churches, publicly or privately to discuss these things. D and C 6:9-11 says, Convince us of our error if we have any.

Why do I get accused of being hateful for doing what the scriptures teach? Now let me add this, would you agree that it is good to listen to the mormon prophets? If so, then I am.


I quote Orsan Pratt

The Seer pg. 15. "we ask from you the same generosity--protect us in the exercise of our religious rights--CONVINCE US of our errors of doctrine, if we have any, by reason, by logical arguments, or by the word of God, and we will be ever grateful for the information, and you will ever have the pleasing reflection that you have been instruments in the hands of God redeeming your fellow beings from the darkness which you may see enveloping their minds".

I am just trying to look at mormonism in a logical way and point out what I believe are problems. I find it interesting that Mormons of old were willing to tell others they were wrong or be open to talks, but it does not appear to be that way today.

Mormon President George A. Smith said on page 216 in volume 14 of the J.O.D.

“If a faith will not bear to be investigated; if it’s preachers and professors are afraid to have it examined, their foundation must be very weak.”

I believe this fits the Mormons perfectly, as they really don't want their faith to be examined. Because if you do, then they call you an Anti-Mormon.

Let me end with this. I have been talking on a board called Reach out Trust. They are believers in Jesus who allow different religions to come and talk. This includes mormonism. There is also another board I have been on, called Fair LDS. This is a board run by Mormons. They allow talks of different religions also who want to examine mormonism. There are times where there can be some really heated debate from both sides, even personnal attacks, even from Mormons, as much as they would like people to think otherwise. But anyway, they have on the FairLDS board a comic that slams both Christians and the Reachout Trust board. http://www.fairlds.org/apol/humor/humor02.html

My point on showing this comic is this: if it were believers in Jesus that did this comic and made fun of LDS members, they would cry out for our blood saying we are Anti-Mormon and hateful of them. Yet, they seem to be able to justify it when they do this. This is why I feel the terms Anti and hypocrite can equally be used with LDS members as they apply it to us. Rick Beaudin

Book of Mormon. Another testament? Part 2

The Old Testament is a story about a nation brought forth to present a messiah. The New Testament is the Story of that messiah. We read in

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Notice Jesus said, the Scriptures testify of him. We also read in

Deuteronomy 5:11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold [him] guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

If the Lord Is so serious about his name not being taken in vain, that he makes it one of the Ten commandments, How more serious is he about his Word. We read in

Psalms 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

God clearly states he puts

His Word

Above his Name. Lets look at some Verses that speak about the Scriptures.

Psalm 12:6 The words of the LORD [are] pure words: [as] silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

Psalm 12:7Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Isa 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

In 2 Timothy 3:16 the phrase By inspiration of God In the Greek means God Breathed

Then when we read the words, for reproof Reproof means (Wrong conduct). And For correction It means (Wrong Doctrine). Can you show me in the BoM where we can use that "Scripture" To correct, reprove, or use for instruction? I don't think so.

Mormons teach, part of the Bible is not translated correctly. you have 2 choices, you can either except the entire Bible as truth from God, or reject it as false, You cannot pick and choose what you like.

The Bible, (Scripture) Clearly declares it is of devine origin and declares it's integrity.

1Cr 4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.

1Cr 4:2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.

1Th 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received [it] not [as] the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified [it] by his angel unto his servant John:

Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

Rev 1:3 Blessed [is] he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time [is] at hand.

Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See [thou do it] not: for I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

Jesus Pre-approved the verses above through the Holy Spirit. Read

John 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Read these verses yourself, as the list would otherwise be way to long. These verses, presents Gods own speech in the Old Testament.

1 Kings 22:8-16 Nehemiah 8:1 Psalms 119 Jeremiah 25:1-13,36

We read in

Job 42:1-2 Then Job answered the LORD, and said,

Job 42:2 I know that thou canst do every [thing], and [that] no thought can be withholden from thee.

Notice Job said to the Lord, you can do anything! God never disputed Job on that subject. If God was not all powerful, then maybe we would need another Testament. But we don't more scripture. Not only Did Job make the claim that God IS all powerful, but also read

Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Even Jesus states their is power in the scripture. And God has power.

Read

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Yet again the Bible claims it is the power of God.

Read

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Here in John, it plainly states, THE WORD IS GOD.. I would not want to mess with the word of God, because to do that you mess with God. and to have another Testament is saying God is not enough, we need more.

Under my topic in part one, Someone left this comment.

Anonymous said...

The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ. This means that its another testimony of the Savior working among another group of people, the Ancient Americans as opposed to His ministry among the Jews. From the Book of Mormon we received a witness that the Lord loves all his children and is involved with all of them.

I would like to reply to this point.

We read in the Great commission, that WE are to preach the gospel unto every living creature.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

Why would Jesus tell us to do this, but then go over himself? Also their is no evidence down through history or Archaeology that the BoM is true. Anyone really interested on this topic should see the Video Book of Mormon V. The Bible. This lays out plenty of evidence that the BoM is not true, by lack of Archaeology evidence.

Book of Mormon. Another testament? Part 1

I would like to cover the Issue of the Book of Mormon being another testament of Jesus Christ. I will cover this in two parts. The first part will cover the BoM and other problems, Part two will go over the Bible.

Here is what I feel is a very good question to put to your LDS friends, I feel this is a good question because I have used it and as of yet I have not had one single Mormon ever answer my question. This is not to say they wont give an answer. But will they answer it or can they truthfully answer it. I personally believe if they are honest with themselves or you, they cannot really answer this question.

Ask your LDS friend or any LDS you happen to be sharing with, if we really do need the BoM as another testament from God, can you supply me with a list off all the teachings from it that are not found in the Bible that will help me get closer to the Lord and help me in my salvation. If not then why do we need it?

I (Rick B) have read all 4 standard works. I see lots of things in the BoM that line up with the Bible but in fact deny LDS beliefs, Such as eternal hell, Trinity, One God alone, No baptism after death Etc. I personally believe the BoM was plagiarized and now we see it in the BoM. I want a list of things that are not in the Bible but in the BoM that get me closer to the Lord. I personally bet no LDS member can provide me with the information I need. This is why you need on going revelation, But along with that, when in the last 200 years did a Mormon Prophet Give a revelation from God that really told us something that Will get us closer to God?

I also asked for something in the BoM not found in the Bible because of A of F 8 and how JS himself made a bold claim that a man will get nearer to God by reading the BoM over any other Book. Joseph Smith said in the History of the Church volume 4, page 461,
"I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by it's precepts, than by any other book".

According to Dictionary.com these are the two meanings to the word precepts.
1. A rule or principle prescribing a particular course of action or conduct.
2. Law. An authorized direction or order; a writ..

I am posting these, because I notice LDS seem to change the definition of words when it denies their teachings. Example, it is said of God in the bible that he is from everlasting. Yet the mormons claim he had a beginning. So is he eternal or did he have a start? I guess it all depends on who's meaning you choose to use.

This is one reason that prove's to me that the BoM is false. I maintain No LDS member can give me the info I want, so instead they will either ignore this question, or refer me to different books, or say something like, If you know what your looking for you will find it.

That is a plain and simple Cop out. Or the 4th way around it will be, you will simply give me things that can be found in the Bible and try and get around it that way. Let me provide a short list of parallel's from the Bible and BoM.

Two articles I covered were the Trinity and the Cross, so you can look at those for more in depth information. But here is a short list we find in the BoM that is also taught in the Bible.

Everlasting Hell/Torment
Jacob 3:11 and 6:10
Mosiah 2:33,38 and 3:24
Alma 3:26,27 and 5:7
Helman 6:28,40 and 7:16

God the Father was never a man,
1st Nephi 11:21,31 and 13:40
2nd Nephi 9:8-9 and 26:12
Mosiah 3:5

God is the Most High God
2 nd Nephi 24:12-14
Jacob 2:5,10
Alma 11:21-41 and 26:14

Death on the Cross
Mosiah 3:8-9
Helman 8:14-15

Trinity
2 Nephi 26:12 and 31:21
Mosiah 15:1-8

I could provide much more on the lists above or even cover other topics found in both the Bible and BoM. So if we look at all these subjects, and say that the Bible covers them as does the BoM, then why do we need the Book of Mormon? If we say that because the Bible covers these subjects clearly and then say lets only go with subjects found in the Book of Mormon that are not found in the Bible that either pertain to my Salvation or help me with my walk with the Lord, can any Mormon in all good faith and honesty provide me with a list of these things from the BoM alone to help further my salvation. I maintain it cannot be done.

If I am correct and it cannot be done, then LDS need to honestly ask the question, Is the Book of Mormon really another testament of Jesus, or is it a false Gospel? If it is a false Gospel, then not only are you believing a lie, but you teaching a lie and sadly you will give an account for this to God on the day of judgment, then you will be cast into the lake of fire where you will be tormented forever. Is this something you are willing to rick for not honestly looking into this matter? Rick B