Thursday, July 20, 2006

More on the Adam God issue

The Adam-God Doctrine as Taught by Brigham Young

You said your church doesn’t teach the Adam/God doctrine. I’m willing to concede that the church may not teach or admit to this position publicly, but based on the following quotes from Brigham Young himself, how can you believe that the LDS church doesn’t hold to that teaching.

Brigham Young is the man next to Joseph Smith that every Mormon looks to. I mean, they named a college after him. He’s quoted every day by Mormons. Books for Mormon teaching are filled with his advice and instruction. Will you take any of that advice from a guy who holds to this Adam/ God doctrine? He sure held to it.

He called it, “one of the most glorious revealments of the economy of heaven.” Brigham Young taught it publicly as fact. If you don’t believe me, read your own copies of these publications. Stop ignoring facts. Look them up for yourself. Read the entire context.

These are some quotes from “Journal of Discourses,” and some other LDS sources.

How much unbelief exists in the minds of Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which I revealed to them, and which God revealed to me - namely that Adam is our father and God...Then he said, "I want my children who are in the spirit world to come and live here. I once dwelt upon an earth something like this, in a mortal state. I was faithful. I received my crown and exaltation...I want my children that were born to me in the spirit world to come here and take tabernacles of flesh that their spirits may have a house, a tabernacle..." (Brigham Young, Deseret Weekly News, June 18, 1873, page 308; Deseret Evening News, June 14, 1873.)

Who was the Savior begotten by?....Who did beget him? His Father, and his father is our God, and the Father of our spirits, and he is the framer of the body, the God and Father our Lord Jesus Christ. Who is he? He is Father Adam; Michael; the Ancient of Days.
(Pres. B. Young, Feb. 19, 1854; Brigham Young Collection, LDS Archives; Brigham Young Addresses, 1850-1854, Vol. 2, by Elden J. Watson, sheet 179 in chronological order, Historical Dept. Church, Ms d 1234, Box 48 Fd. 11

Some years ago I advanced a doctrine with regard to Adam being our Father and God...It is one of the most glorious revealments of the economy of heaven... (President Brigham Young, in the Tabernacle, General Conference, October 8, 1861, 10:30 a.m.; Brigham Young Addresses, 1860-1864, Vol. 4, by Elden J. Watson, sheet 134 in chronological order, Historical Dept. Church, Ms d 1234, Box 49 fd 8)

[In this next verse Matt- it becomes pretty clear that President Young just disregarded a verse in the Bible because he felt like it. That Adam was created by God the Father from the dust of this Earth should be clear to anyone who reads the verse, even casually. President Young simply chose not to believe it.]

You believe Adam was made of the dust of this earth. This I do not believe, though it is supposed that it is so written in the Bible; but it is not, to my understanding...I do not believe that portion of the Bible.... (Pres. Brigham Young, October 23, 1853, Journal Of Discourses 2:6).
Adam was made from the dust of an earth, but not from the dust of this earth. He was made as you and I are made, and no person was ever made upon any other principle." (President Brigham Young, April 20, 1856, Journal of Discourses 3:319).

When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT of Days! about whom holy men have written and spoken - HE is our FATHER and our GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do. (Brigham Young, April 9, 1852. Journal of Discourses 1:50)

These references show that Brigham Young, show clearly that President Brigham Young taught that not only was Adam God, but that he was also Michael the Archangel, and he called it doctrine and a revelation from God. This is absolutely refuted by the Bible Matt.

Another point I’d like to make to you is that though the LDS Church likes to say today that it disagrees completely with the Adam-God-Michael the Archangel doctrine as taught by President Young, but he didn’t have to submit these teachings formally to a Mormon Church membership vote because it was already in Mormon Scriptures. You should check these out:

And also with Michael or Adam, the father of all, the prince of all, the ancient of days. (D&C 27:11, August 1830) Joseph Smith

Adam shall come to visit his people, or the Ancient of Days shall sit, as spoken of by Daniel the prophet. (D&C 116, May 19, 1838)Joseph Smith

Both of those verses are reinforced in D&C 138:38 when LDS President Joseph F. Smith wrote:
Among the great and mighty ones who were assembled in this vast congregation of the righteous were Father Adam, the Ancient of Days and father of all. (October 3,1918)

From these we learn:
1)That Mormon scripture purports that Adam/Michael is the Ancient of Days and the father referred to by Daniel the prophet in the Bible (see Daniel 7:9, 22 shown below).

2)Mormon scripture purports that Adam is the father of all, the prince of all.

3)Mormon scripture purports that Adam has the title Father - Father Adam (from the 1918 revelation)

From Daniel 7:9, 13, 14, 22 we find:
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

From these and the Doctrine and Covenants references we have:

a. From Daniel 7:9:The Mormon scriptures purport that Father Adam has a throne.
b. From Daniel 7:13-14: The Mormon scriptures purport that The "Son of Man,"--Jesus Christ , will come to and will be brought before “Father Adam” and “Father Adam” will give Jesus Christ dominion, and glory, and a Kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him. Only God the Father would have the authority to have Jesus Christ brought before him, and this means that LDS scriptures disagree sharply. The Mormon church says it rejects this doctrine, but it’s weird that Mormon scripture doesn’t. I know your friend Terry believes it.

*******President Brigham Young chose not to believe Genesis 2:7, simply because he didn’t want to. This is common among people who have little use or respect for the Bible. It didn’t serve his purposes Matt. But the Bible doesn’t serve our purposes—we serve the Bible’s purposes because they are the purposes of God the Father and our Lord Jesus the Messiah. You can’t pick and choose from the Bible--it is final in all matters of truth and doctrine. You believe it is the pure Word of God or you don’t. It’s that simple.

Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. (Matthew 24:35)
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. (Matthew 18:20)

1. "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" 1 Timothy 2:5
2. "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me." Isaiah 43:10
3. "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God ...Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any." Isaiah 44:6, 8
4. "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;" Isaiah 44:24
5. "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else...Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me." Isaiah 45:5-6, 21
6 "For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself," Hebrews 6:13
7. "Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee." Nehemiah 9:6
8. "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:" Colossians 1:16
9. "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" Hebrews 1:2
10. "Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God." Psalms 90:2
11. "Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting." Psalms 93:2
12. "But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting ....." Psalms 103:17
13. "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." John 4:24
14. "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." Luke 24:39
15. "And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect." Genesis 17:1
16. "Unto thee it was showed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him." Deuteronomy 4:35
17. "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" Deuteronomy 6:4
18. "Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else." Deuteronomy 4:39
19. "Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;" Deuteronomy 7:9
20. "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them." Exodus 6:3

Just to let every one know, This ENTIRE TOPIC/ARTICLE was sent to me by a believing brother in the Lord. None of this is my work, just so everyone knows. But I agree with this and thought I would add it to my Adam God topic. Rick b


rick b said...

Steve your a liar, your father is the devil and you lie like him. Sharon does not know you, and we both called that phone number, it does not work, so unless you typed it in wrong, you are nothing more than a liar. You did not catch me in any lies, you are the one making lies up. Even sharon posted here she gave me permission to use her stuff, how does that make me a liar? Soon Ed were62 will know you lied also. I know he will talk with sharon and maybe try that bogus number. Rick b

Anonymous said...

May this shed some light!

Few persons have been more directly involved in the plan of salvation than the man Adam. His ministry among the sons and daughters of earth stretches from the distant past of premortality to the distant future of resurrection, judgment, and beyond.

As Michael, the archangel, Adam led the forces of God against the armies of Lucifer in the War in Heaven. Under the direction of Elohim and Jehovah, he assisted in the Creation of the earth. Adam and Eve brought mortality into being through partaking of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. With the Fall of our first parents came blood and posterity and probation and death, as well as the need for redemption through a Savior, a “last Adam” (1Cor15:45). To Adam the gospel was first preached, and upon him the priesthood was first bestowed. From Adam and Eve the message of the gospel of salvation went forth to all the world. Following his death, which occurred almost a millennium after he entered mortality, Adam’s watch-care over his posterity continued. Under his direction, revelations have come and angels have ministered. At his behest, priesthood has been conferred and keys delivered.

Before the World Was
Adam’s role in the eternal plan of God began in our premortal first estate. There he was known as Michael, a name which means “who is like God.” Indeed, “by his diligence and obedience there, as one of the spirit sons of God, he attained a stature and power second only to that of Christ, the Firstborn.” ( Mormon Doctrine, 2nd edition) He was “called and prepared from the foundation of the world according to the foreknowledge of God” (Alma13:3) to perform his labors on earth. Michael stood with Jehovah to defend the Father’s plan, the plan of salvation, when Lucifer, a “son of the morning” (2 Ne 24:12; D&C76:25-27), opposed it with his amendatory offering. “The contention in heaven was,” Joseph Smith explained, that “Jesus said there would be certain souls that would not be saved; and the devil said he could save them all, and laid his plans before the grand council, who gave their vote in favor of Jesus Christ. So the devil rose up in rebellion against God, and was cast down, with all who put up their heads for him.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith) As the Revelator saw in vision: “There was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

“And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. “And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him” ( Rev 12:7-9).

Michael was directly involved in preparing the earth for our mortal probation. Elder Bruce R. McConkie of the Quorum of the Twelve wrote: “Christ and Mary, Adam and Eve, Abraham and Sarah, and a host of mighty men and equally glorious women comprised that group of ‘the noble and great ones,’ to whom the Lord Jesus said: ‘We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell.’ ( Abr 3: 22-24; emphasis added.) This we know: Christ, under the Father, is the Creator; Michael, his companion and associate, presided over much of the creative work; and with them, as Abraham saw, were many of the noble and great ones.” (“Eve and the Fall”)

The Prophet Joseph Smith thus taught that “the Priesthood was first given to Adam; he obtained the First Presidency, and held the keys of it from generation to generation. He obtained it in the Creation, before the world was formed, as in Genesis 1:26, 27, 28.” (Teachings, 157; emphasis added.)

In Eden
When it came time to begin our second estate, mortality, it was appropriate for God our Father to call upon Michael to receive a tabernacle of flesh and become earth’s first inhabitant. Luke’s genealogy of Jesus ends with a noble description of Adam, “the son of God”(Luke 3:38; see Moses 6:22). Adam’s name means “man” or “mankind,” and his position as the “first man of all men” ( Moses 1:34) suggests the eminence of his premortal status.

In the morning of creation, Adam, Eve, and all forms of life existed in a paradisiacal condition. All things were physical. But they were also spiritual in the sense that they were not mortal, not subject to death. (see 1 Cor 15:44; Alma 11:45; D&C 88:27) In the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve walked with God. Adam was made a lord or governor of all things on earth, and at the same time [enjoyed] communion with his Maker, without a vail to separate them. Our first parents would have remained in this state indefinitely if they had not partaken of the forbidden fruit.(see2 Ne 2:22; Moses 4:9)

The Latter-day Saint view of the events in Eden is remarkably optimistic. We believe that Adam and Eve went into the Garden of Eden to fall, that their actions helped “open the way of the world,” and that the Fall was a part of the Father’s foreordained plan. “Adam did only what he had to do,” President Joseph Fielding Smith said. “He partook of that fruit for one good reason, and that was to open the door to bring you and me and everyone else into this world, for Adam and Eve could have remained in the Garden of Eden; they could have been there to this day, if Eve hadn’t done something.” ( Conference Report, October 1967)

Because the Fall (like the Creation and the Atonement) is one of the three pillars of eternity, and because mortality, death, human experience, sin, and thus the need for redemption grow out of the Fall, we look upon what Adam and Eve did with great appreciation rather than with disdain. “The fall had a twofold direction—downward, yet forward. It brought man into the world and set his feet upon progression’s Highway.”(Cowley and Whitney on Doctrine) As Enoch declared, “Because that Adam fell, we are”( Moses 6:48; see 2 Ne 2:25).

Out of Eden
The Fall also opened the door to sin and death. This life became a probationary estate, a time for men and women to prepare to meet God (see 2 Ne 2:21; Alma 12:24; Alma 34:32; Alma 42:4). With the Fall came a veil of separation between God and humankind; mortals “were shut out from his presence” ( Moses 5:4). After being cast from the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve were taught the gospel by the ministration of angels, by the voice of God, and through the power of the Holy Ghost (see Moses 5:1-12,58).

The veil separating Adam from the immediate presence of the Eternal Father did not, however, remove Adam’s memory of life in Eden. As Joseph Smith clarified, Adam’s “transgression did not deprive him of the previous [Edenic] knowledge with which he was endowed relative to the existence and glory of his Creator. … Neither did God cease to manifest his will unto him.”( Lectures on Faith, 14.) President John Taylor asked, “How did Adam get his information of the things of God?” He then answered, “He got it through the gospel of Jesus Christ. … God came to him in the garden and talked with him … ; and he was the first man upon this earth that had the gospel and the holy priesthood; and if he had it not, he could not have known anything about God or his revelations.”(The Gospel Kingdom, 91; emphasis added.)

Latter-day Saints stand alone in the religious world in certifying that Christ’s gospel is eternal—that Christian prophets have taught Christian doctrine and administered Christian ordinances since the dawn of time. Adam was earth’s first Christian. He exercised faith in the redemption of Christ, was baptized in water, received the gift of the Holy Ghost, and received the priesthood (see Moses 6:64-67). Further, Adam and Eve entered into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage and thus placed themselves on that pathway that leads to life eternal. “Father Adam was called of God,” President Wilford Woodruff explained, “and ordained to the fullness of the Melchizedek Priesthood—ordained to the highest office and gift of God to man on the earth.” (Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, 64; see also Doctrines of Salvation, 3:81.)

As they received the gospel from the lips of God and angels, Adam and Eve taught the same to their posterity. Some of their descendants rejected the light of heaven and “loved Satan more than God” ( Moses 5:13,18,28). Our first parents mourned over the choices of their loved ones (see Moses 5:27), but their mourning was not as those who have no hope; they “ceased not to call upon God” ( Moses 5:16).

Three years prior to his death, Adam gathered his righteous posterity together in the valley of Adam-ondi-Ahman (the place where he and Eve had settled after their expulsion from Eden).( See The Mediation and Atonement ) Seven generations of faithful patriarchs and their families met to receive prophetic counsel. There Adam bestowed upon them his last blessing. In describing a vision he had of this sacred occasion, the Prophet Joseph said: “I saw Adam in the valley of Adam-ondi-Ahman. He called together his children and blessed them with a patriarchal blessing. The Lord appeared in their midst, and he (Adam) blessed them all, and foretold what should befall them to the latest generation. This is why Adam blessed his posterity; he wanted to bring them into the presence of God.” (Teachings, 158–59; see also D&C 107:53-57)

Adam was the Lord’s prophet-leader over the earth for his own day; he also stands as earth’s presiding high priest, the man who, under Christ, holds the keys of authority for the blessing of humankind and the perpetuation of righteousness in the earth. “The keys have to be brought from heaven whenever the Gospel is sent. When they are revealed from heaven, it is by Adam’s authority”( Teachings, 157.) under the direction of Jesus Christ (see D&C 78:16). The Prophet Joseph Smith said that Adam was “the first to hold the spiritual blessings, to whom was made known the plan of ordinances for the salvation of his posterity unto the end, and to whom Christ was first revealed, and through whom Christ has been revealed from heaven, and will continue to be revealed from henceforth. Adam holds the keys of the dispensation of the fullness of times; i.e., the dispensation of all the times have been and will be revealed through him from the beginning to Christ, and from Christ to the end of the dispensations that are to be revealed.”

After Death
Adam, called the Ancient of Days, lived some 930 years on this earth (see Moses 6:12). His death fulfilled the divine decree that in the day he ate of the forbidden fruit—in this case, day means a period of time as measured by the Lord—he would “surely die” Moses 3:17; Abr 5:13). At death Adam entered into that part of the postmortal world of spirits known as paradise (see 2 Ne 9:13; Alma 40:12; Moro 10:34). There he ministered and labored among his faithful descendants for some 3,000 years. The Prophet Joseph Smith explained that Adam “presides over the spirits of all men,” and so his ministry and administrative responsibilities would have continued beyond death’s door.

Just as the War in Heaven continues, in a sense, into our own time, even so Adam’s efforts to thwart and oppose Satan have continued since Adam’s mortal death. In our own day, Michael, on the banks of the Susquehanna River, detected “the devil when he appeared as an angel of light” ( D&C 128:20). I wonder how many other occasions there have been in earth’s history when Michael has stood to rebuke and set the bounds of Lucifer
There is perhaps one other occasion on which Michael, as a spirit, may have played a particularly significant role in the plan of our Father. Luke records that on the night of Atonement, following the Last Supper, Jesus bowed in awful alienation and grief in the Garden of Gethsemane beneath the load of the world’s sins. He uttered his soul-cry: “Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

“And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him” ( Luke 22:42-43)

An angel was sent from the courts of glory to support, to sustain the sinless Son of Man in the depths of his greatest agony. “The angelic ministrant is not named,” Elder Bruce R. McConkie wrote. “If we might indulge in speculation, we would suggest that the angel who came into this second Eden was the same person who dwelt in the first Eden. At least Adam, who is Michael, the archangel—the head of the whole heavenly hierarchy of angelic ministrants—seems the logical one to give aid and comfort to his Lord on such a solemn occasion. Adam fell, and Christ redeemed men from the fall; theirs was a joint enterprise, both parts of which were essential for the salvation of the Father’s children.”(The Mortal Messiah: From Bethlehem to Calvary, emphasis added).

President Joseph F. Smith, who was privileged to glimpse in vision the spirit world at the time Jesus entered it, wrote, “Among the great and mighty ones who were assembled in this vast congregation of the righteous were Father Adam, the Ancient of Days and father of all,

“And our glorious Mother Eve, with many of her faithful daughters who had lived through the ages and worshiped the true and living God” ( D&C138:38-39). Adam and Eve were among that group who “waited and conversed, rejoicing in the hour of their deliverance from the chains of death.” When the Lord appeared, he taught and organized his righteous forces to take the message of salvation to “the ungodly and the unrepentant.” In ministering to his own, the Master also “gave them power to come forth, after his resurrection from the dead, to enter into his Father’s kingdom, there to be crowned with immortality and eternal life” ( D&C 138:18,20,51).

We do not know when Adam came forth in the first resurrection and entered celestial glory—whether it was, like many ancient prophets, at the time of Christ’s rise from the tomb (see D&C 133:54-55) or whether he remained in the spirit world for a season to oversee or participate in the work of redemption for the dead. That Adam did eventually rise to glory, to sit with his descendants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and that he shall dwell in celestial glory is clear from latter-day revelation (see D&C 132:37; D&C 137:5).

Following Adam’s resurrection, “Adam’s base of operation would be from wherever such righteous resurrected beings go to await the time when this earth will become celestialized and become their eternal home. Again we should remember that Adam’s priesthood keys go with him—from the premortal world, through his mortal ministry, into the post-earth spirit world, and into the resurrection.”(“Adam’s Role from the Fall to the End—and Beyond,” in The Man Adam)

In the Future
Without modern revelation, a rather mysterious passage in the book of Daniel, reference is made to an unusual gathering of people. “I saw in the night visions,” Daniel wrote, “and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

“And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed” (7:13–14).

Latter-day revelation informs us that the location of this gathering is Daviess County, Missouri, in that area we have come to know as Adam-ondi-Ahman (see D&C 116), the same place where Adam met with and prophesied to his numerous posterity three years before his death. In this meeting that will precede the Savior’s coming in glory, the Prophet Joseph Smith said: “Daniel in his seventh chapter speaks of the Ancient of Days; he means the oldest man, our Father Adam, Michael, he will call his children together and hold a council with them to prepare them for the coming of the Son of Man. He (Adam) is the father of the human family, and presides over the spirits of all men, and all that have had the keys must stand before him in this grand council. … The Son of Man stands before him, and there is given him glory and dominion. Adam delivers up his stewardship to Christ, that which was delivered to him as holding the keys of the universe, but retains his standing as head of the human family.” ( Teachings, 157.)

Elder Joseph Fielding Smith offered the following explanation: “At this conference, or council, all who have held keys of dispensations will render a report of their stewardship. Adam will do likewise, and then he will surrender to Christ all authority. Then Adam will be confirmed in his calling as the prince over his posterity and will be officially installed and crowned eternally in this presiding calling. Then Christ will be received as King of kings, and Lord of lords. We do not know how long a time this gathering will be in session, or how many sessions may be held at this grand council. It is sufficient to know that it is a gathering of the Priesthood of God from the beginning of this earth down to the present, in which reports will be made and all who have been given dispensations (talents) will declare their keys and ministry and make report of their stewardship according to the parable. [See Matt 25:14-30.] Judgment will be rendered unto them for this is a gathering of the righteous, those who have held and who hold keys of authority in the Kingdom of God upon this earth. … This will precede the great day of destruction of the wicked and will be the preparation for the Millennial Reign.(The Millennial Messiah: The Second Coming of the Son of Man)

When the Lord Jesus returns in triumphant glory to initiate “the end of the world, or the destruction of the wicked” (JS-M 1:4), the first resurrection, which began with the Resurrection of Christ, will resume. Here again Michael-Adam will play a significant role. “Before the earth shall pass away, Michael, mine archangel, shall sound his trump, and then shall all the dead awake, for their graves shall be opened, and they shall come forth”( D&C 29:26).

The nature of the keys restored to earth by various angels, Elder Bruce R. McConkie noted that “the holy priesthood will be used in eternity as well as in time. It is not only the power and authority to save men here and now; it is also the power by which the worlds were made and by which all things are. It also could well be that Adam, who brought mortality and death into the world, was also permitted to restore the power that brings immortality and life to his descendants. Christ, of course, in the ultimate sense holds the keys of the resurrection and of raising souls in immortality, but, as we also know, it is his practice to operate through his servants, and righteous persons will, in due course, participate in calling their loved ones forth in the resurrection.”(The Millennial Messiah, 119–20; emphasis added.)

At the end of the earth—meaning at the end of the Millennium (see D&C 88:101; JS-M 1:55)—the final great battle between good and evil, known as “the battle of the great God” ( D&C 88:114), or the battle of Gog and Magog, will take place. And once again, the mighty Michael, the eternal captain of Jehovah’s army, will come face to face with his foe, Satan. “The devil and his armies shall be cast away into their own place, that they shall not have power over the saints any more at all.(Teachings)

“For Michael shall fight their battles, and shall overcome him who seeketh the throne of him who sitteth upon the throne, even the Lamb.

“This is the glory of God, and the sanctified; and they shall not any more see death” ( D&C 88:114-116). Michael’s final victory is in preparation for the celestialization of the earth.

All too often Adam’s place and role in the plan of salvation have been misunderstood. Many in the religious world despise him for his actions in Eden. The praise he receives from some others takes the strange form of adoration and even worship. But to misunderstand Adam is to misunderstand our own identity as well as our relationship to the Lord and his plan.

May this be a better understanding of the teachings, about Adam in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Anonymous said...

rick don't get discouraged with all this stuff being written about you. The devil is upset! and does not like what your doing for God! keep up the good work of the Lord . remember Jesus was spat upon and called names for doing the work of God. he continued forward with the work of the Lord. i know you will and are doing the same.

God Bless You,

rick b said...

Anonymous said...
May this shed some light!

Sorry but that did not shed any light.
First off, that does not answer the question of was Adam God, and was BY correct or not. Then non off what you said about the fall or the priesthood or anything, like the 2 plans of salvation put forward to God the father, none of this can be shown in or from the bible or the BoM.

Then when you stated, that Jesus said in His plan, some souls will be lost, mormonism teaches ALL will be saved, That is why a few LDS do not like my topic on will all be saved?

Then to reply to the topic of priesthood authority, I did a topic on that, go and read it. Yet again, another reply void of evidence but long on words. Rick b

David said...

Anonymous said,
"May this be a better understanding of the teachings, about Adam in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints."

A lengthy reiterative statement of the doctrine, albeit a bit more detailed, doesn't necessarily help to answer the question of whether Brigham Young was correct when he introduced the teaching. He was, it is plain to see, a man who made spiritual statements arbitrarily and without regard to the validity of the Bible, God's holy Word.

The LDS (Mormon) organization has publicly distanced itself from this outrageous doctrine and the equally outrageous idea that Jesus' birth was the direct result from a physical union between Adam/god and the virgin Mary. Both doctrines were introduced to those assembled at the Salt Lake City Tabernacle on April 9th, 1852.
The organization however, still believes it and teaches this.

Publicly, denial. Privately, acceptance. Even the fact that Anonymous had to publish anonymously demonstrates a kind of ashamedness about the doctrine.

One of the two young LDS gusy I work with adamantly denied the Adam/god doctrine time after time until he went through his own temple endowment ceremony. He still denies the LDS version of the non-virgin birth, and won't even read the passage from Journal of Discourses when I place it in front of him because, it comes from the hands of a non-mormon.

Sticking your head squarely in the sand doesn't help answer questions either, and you would have to stick your head in the sand to avoid knowing that the LDS organization does not regard the Bible as a valid source of truth.

Mormon Apostle Orson Pratt stated, "Who knows that even one verse of the whole Bible has escaped pollution, so as to convey the same sense now that it did in the original?"

I would find that statement to be laughable if it weren't so ridiculously insulting. There are easily in excess of 13,000 manuscript copies of the New Testament alone. Astoundingly more than for any other ancient document in existence. The Bible passes any bibliographic test and the archaeologic test too.

There is not one single ancient manuscript copy of the Book of Mormon available for examination to date. The "golden plates" apparently aren't available and the staggering size of the civilizations the Book of Mormon mentions as having lived on this continent have no archaeological validation whatsoever. Even LDS archaeological experts will concede that.

The copies of the Bible and there consistency, despite the rare spelling error here and there, validate it's accuarcy. The Bible continues to validate the Bible in the face of so many critics, even critics from the 1850s who say things like, "I do not believe that portion of the Bible...."

Brigham Young had to discount the Bible in able to shoehorn his doctrine into scripture. Discount this, so we can have this. That isn't the way it works. The Bible is God's word. If there were sections of it that could just be discounted as "unbelieveable," then you have no source of truth.

But then, the LDS organization knows that the Bible is the respected Word of God and that it is final in all matters of truth and doctrine. That is why it appeals to people who have no faith. They have already, a knowledge on some level, that they should be trusting it as God's Word. That is also why it puts the Bible in the forefront of most of its television commercial, to draw people in.

It's only after the Bible, a totally trustworthy document is introduced to people that the 19th century work of fiction known as the Book of Mormon comes along for a piggyback ride. The Bible is one of the LDS organizations most reliable conversion tools.

It's a pity that it is not really respected as the Word of God, the way it should be. If it were, there might be about 14 million converts to Christianity, instead of a religious organization that has a form of godliness but denies its power.

Anonymous said...

As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I have at many times come in contact with the so-called Adam-God theory as an anti-Mormon tract. I had read such literature before and knew that it frequently twisted and misinterpreted LDS sources. I therefore felt certain that the purported quotation from Brigham Young's April 9, 1852 discourse--that Adam is our father and our God--either was taken from context or was an outright fabrication.

After examining the evidence, however, I soon became convinced that on at least two occasions Brigham Young had taught a concept which generally has not been accepted by Mormons--namely, that God the Father, the Father of our spirits and the Father of Jesus (of both his body and his spirit), came to this earth, took upon himself mortality, and was known as Adam, the progenitor the of human family. Simply stated, according to President Young, God the Father became Adam. (Journal of Discourses [JD] 1:50; Deseret News, June 18, 1873).
Later I found several other references in which President Young hinted at this belief. (JD 4:216-218, 271; 5:331; 6:274; 7:290; 11:41,42).

Over the past few years I have found many additional sources, which confirm that, this idea was taught for a period of time in the past century. They include sermon reports, private diary entries, minutes of meetings, letters, articles, and statements. Many of these are unpublished and have only come to light in the last several years.

I have encountered strong and varied opinions on this subject. Opponents of the LDS Church have taken a particular interest in it. Non-Mormon Christians like Rick, committed to evangelizing Mormons seek to establish that Brigham Young taught the Adam-God theory, that it is contrary to Biblical teaching, and that Brigham Young could therefore not have been a true prophet. Since recent prophets have rejected it, then the prophets since Brigham Young could therefore not be true prophets. Both thoughts have taken advantage of two facts: First, most Mormons are unaware that Brigham Young ever taught the Adam-God theory; and second, most Mormons are uncomfortable with the position that prophets may have differed in their concept of God.
My purpose here is not to present evidence to show that Brigham Young taught the Adam-God theory. Rather, as one who is convinced that he did teach it, I wish to state briefly some of my reasons for rejecting the conclusions of these thoughts of Mormon opponents.

The non-Mormon Christian Argument
Rick, a non-Mormon Christian argument for several reasons, does not persuade me. First, in his zeal to refute Mormonism he has misstated, ignored, or distorted many points of Mormon history. Second, and perhaps more important, he demands qualifications of a prophet which are both un-Biblical and unreasonable. I will present my response by answering two questions.
Was the Adam-God theory official Mormon doctrine?
My answer to this question is an emphatic "No." After presenting evidence that Brigham Young taught the Adam-God theory, critics usually go on to claim:
That is was official doctrine for 50 years; that it was widely taught and received; that Brigham Young claimed he had received it by revelation; that it was accepted as the inerrant word of God because Brigham Young said his sermons were scripture; and that those rejecting it were excommunicated from the church.
The effort of Rick to establish this point is evidence that he considers it important. His purpose is to make Mormons feel uncomfortable with the LDS Church. To present the Adam-God theory as a concept expressed by Brigham Young on several occasions but which was never accepted officially as doctrine does not serve his purpose nearly as well. He therefore resorts to considerable distortion to maintain this erroneous position.
My reasons for rejecting this anti-Mormon caricature are based on the following six points.
The Adam-God theory has never been a part of the Mormon canon of scripture.
During Brigham's Young's lifetime the canon was the Bible, Book of Mormon, and a somewhat smaller Doctrine and Covenants. President Young never attempted to incorporate any statement of the Adam-God theory into this canon.

Rick quoted Brigham Young's statement that he had "never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture" (JD13: 95), or that his sermons "when they are copied and approved by [him] they are as good scripture as is couched in this Bible," (JD 13:264). He contends that President Young in calling his sermons scripture and comparing them to the Bible was declaring his to be the inerrant word of God, but this is his definition of scripture and not Brigham Young's. Brigham Young’s definition of scripture and thus the only one appropriately applied here did not define scripture as being word for word the word of God. But rather, he said:

“I have heard some make the broad assertion that every word within the lids of the Bible was the word of God ... I believe that the Bible contains the word of God, and the words of good angels and the words of bad angels and the words of the devil; and also the words uttered by the ass when he rebuked the prophet in his madness. I believe the words of the Bible are just what they are” (JD 13:175,235).

Brigham Young did not claim inerrancy for his sermons. In fact quite the contrary is true, as will be seen. The theory was never advocated in any official statement. In addition to the canon, official statements were occasionally issued by the First Presidency and by the Quorum of the Twelve. The only one in which Brigham Young ever referred to the Adam-God theory was a statement issued in 1860 entitled "Instructions to the Saints." Signed by the First Presidency and published in the Deseret News, it stated several conclusions of councils held to consider some doctrinal differences between Apostle Orson Pratt and President Young. One of these was the Adam-God theory. But rather than declaring the theory to be Church doctrine, the statement says, "It is deemed wisest to let that subject remain without further explanation at present" (Messages of the First Presidency 2:222).

No revelation was ever presented by Brigham Young on the Adam-God theory. Nor does it appear that he ever claimed to have received a direct revelation on the subject. Rick would challenge my claim with this quotation from President Young:

How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which I revealed to them, and which God revealed to me--namely that Adam is our father and God (Deseret News, June 18, 1873).

It is not all certain that Brigham Young intended this to be an announcement of a direct revelation. It was his belief that God is the source of all truth in every field. To him, every truth known to any man has come by revelation from God, sometimes directly but usually indirectly upon such natural principles as observation, study, inquiry, and meditation. Since he believed that the Adam- God theory was true, no matter how he arrived at that conclusion, to him it was revealed by God. (He presented this thought at some length in JD 3:209; see also 12:207; 12:148).

But even if this is to be accepted as a claim of direct revelation, the extent of it seems to be "namely that Adam is our father and God." The more specific idea that God the Father became Adam may be Brigham Young's own expansion or interpretation. There is, however, another possible interpretation - that, as the Lord made Moses a god to Pharaoh (Exodus 7:1) and as Paul was "as Christ Jesus" to the Galatians (4:14), Adam, our great progenitor, will preside over the human family as "father and God." This was the interpretation of Brigham Young's statement advocated in 1853 by Samuel W. Richards, who, as editor of the Millennial Star and President of the Church in the British Isles, first published President Young's initial sermon on the subject (Millennial Star, December 10, 1853). Richards' successor, Apostle Franklin D. Richards, also advanced this interpretation (MS, March 31, 1855), as have most of Brigham Young's successors.

The fact remains that there is no revelation from Brigham Young specifically stating the idea that God the Father became Adam.

Brigham Young himself did not consider the Adam-God theory official Church doctrine. Again Rick would challenge my assertion by quoting the bold language he used in his first mention of the subject:"Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner!" and "Every man upon the earth, professing Christian or non-professing, must know it sooner or later." From this they insist that President Young considered the Adam-God theory official Church doctrine. However, he expressed his attitude toward it on several other occasions making it very clear that he considered belief in the subject non-essential. Rick in his argument, chose to ignore these quotations:

“[The] subject ... does not immediately concern yours or my welfare ... I do not pretend to say that the items of doctrine and ideas I shall advance are necessary for the people to know “(October 8, 1854, Historical Department of the Church [HDC]).

“... it is one that should not trouble us at all ... I do not tell it because that I wish it to be established in the minds of others” (April 25, 1855, HDC).

“Whether Adam is the personage that we should consider our heavenly Father, or not, is considerable of a mystery to a good many. I do not care for one moment how that is; it is no matter whether we are to consider Him our God, or whether His Father, or His Grandfather, for in either case we are of one species” (JD 4:217; see also JD 4:271; 7:238; 7:285; 11:43, 268).

I cannot believe that President Young would speak this way of an official Church doctrine.

Rick give the impression that for many years President Young frequently and forcefully advocated the Adam-God theory, but this is another distortion. I have not found a single sermon devoted to a full exposition of the theory. Rather, it must be pieced together from several of his sermons and comments. Also, he delivered some 1500 sermons as President, and not more than half a dozen, only two of which appeared in print, contain explicit statements of central Adam-God theory concepts.

Other General Authorities did not consider the Adam-God theory Church doctrine. Tens of thousands of hours of sermons by some twenty leading authorities of Brigham Young's era have been recorded and preserved. Yet we have only several brief comments on the subject by only one of them - Brigham Young's counselor Heber C. Kimball, and these can be read in less than two minutes. The same is true of their writings. Of thousands of printed pages by these authorities there are less than a dozen on the subject, and most of these argue that Adam, as patriarch, will be our God in a certain sense, not that God the Father became Adam. At least a hundred other topics were more frequently addressed in sermons and in print.

The Adam-God theory was not a test of faith. That is, acceptance of it was not required to become a member or to remain a member.

Rick claims that it was Church practice to excommunicate those who did not accept it. This is simply false. The only reference they present in support of his claim is from a conference talk in Great Britain by Apostle Amasa Lyman. However, this very reference, if read in its entirety refutes his argument. Lyman said, "I have heard of a man who was cut off because he would not believe that Adam was our Father and God." They stop here, but Elder Lyman did not. He continued, disapproving strongly of excommunicating a man on those grounds (MS 24:99, 100).

Those familiar with LDS history and practice are well aware that official doctrine must meet certain requirements which were not met by the Adam-God theory. The fact is it was never a part of the LDS canon, never presented in an official statement, never the subject of any known revelation, and never declared church doctrine by any recognized Church authority. The status of the Adam-God theory was summed up in 1897 in a private letter outlined by President Wilford Woodruff and written by Apostle Joseph F. Smith. Both had been Apostles under Brigham Young:

President Young no doubt expressed his personal opinion or views upon the subject. What he said was not given as revelation or commandment from the Lord. The doctrine was never submitted to the councils of the Priesthood or to the church for approval or ratification, and was never formally or otherwise accepted by the church. It is therefore in no sense binding upon the Church.
Brigham Young's "bare mention" was "without indubitable evidence and authority being given of its truth." Only the scripture, the "accepted word of God," is the Church's standard (Letter to A. Saxey, January 7, 1897, HDC).
It seems appropriate at this point to state briefly what has been the prevailing LDS belief. The idea most readily found in the LDS scriptures, the teaching of all of Brigham Young's successors is that Adam and all of the human family have a common Father and God, who is the Father of Jesus Christ. In fact, Brigham Young himself stated this very concept in public sermons on several occasions. An example is found in his April 17, 1870 sermon:
The world may in vain ask the question: "Who are we?" But the Gospel tells us that we are the sons and daughters of that God who we serve. Some say, "We are the children of Adam and Eve." So we are, and they are the children of our Heavenly Father. We are all the children of Adam and Eve, and they and we are the offspring of Him who dwells in the heavens, the highest Intelligence that dwells anywhere that we have any knowledge of (JD 13:311. See also JD 1:238; 10:231; 13:309).
So, with the exception of several sermons that fell far short of official pronouncements, Mormon belief has been consistent in stating that the Father and God of Moses, Jesus, Joseph Smith, Spencer W. Kimball, and all the rest of mankind is the same being who is the Father and God of Adam. Although never official doctrine, some still wonder how President Young could have held such views. This leads to the next question.

Can Prophets Differ in Their Views?
As one who believes that God has called prophets at various times, I think that the only possible answer to this question is "Yes."
Opponents, like Rick make an issue of the Adam-God theory. Because they insist that true prophets have been infallible, at least in matters of faith and doctrine, and therefore there could be no doctrinal difference or disharmony among them. They demand that LDS prophets either meet this standard or be denounced as false prophets. They assume that Biblical prophets were in such perfect union with God as to be free from all error and personal opinion and that their every word and thought were not their own, but God's. This claim has much appeal, but many devoted Christians who have examined this point have declared that the Bible in no way support this assumption. Commentators who have studied the Bible in chronological order have found numerous differences when comparing earlier writings to later, and when comparing author to author. This basic idea has been widely discussed and abundantly demonstrated in such major Biblical works as the Interpreter's Bible, and the Interpreter's Bible Dictionary.
Several subjects on whom the authors of the Bible diverge include the nature of God, Jesus, the Messiah, salvation, resurrection, the Second Coming, and the observance of the Law of Moses. Rick you must be able to deny the differences demonstrated by Bible scholars on these several important points and show a perfect agreement among Bible authors before I could see any validity with you demanding perfect consistency among LDS prophets.
Non-Mormon Christians who acknowledge these differences within the Bible have not felt obligated to reject the Biblical prophets because of their differences. Rather, they have proposed what they feel are valid explanations of them. As far as I am concerned, the same explanations apply with equal validity to LDS prophets.
The two primary points of their explanations are: a) Prophets are not infallible, and b) their knowledge was fragmentary and incomplete. Rev. J.R. Dummelow, in his widely received work stated:
“We must not regard the Bible as an absolutely perfect book in which God is Himself the author using human hands and brains only as a man might use a typewriter. God used men, not machines - men with like weakness and prejudice and passion as ourselves ... in the Bible we do not expect the actors to be real and natural. Because of our false theory of Verbal Inspiration we are puzzled when the divine is mingled with the human. We must learn that the divine is mingled with the human ... It is a mine of precious ore where the gold is mingled with the rock and clay - the ore is richer in one part than another, but all parts in some degree are glittering with gold” (p. cxxxv).
The Apostle Paul said that that "which is perfect" would come in the future. For the present, he claimed that he only "knew in part and prophesied in part." He compared his present imperfect knowledge to the distorted, imperfect image reflected in the poor grade of mirrors of his day. He did not consider his knowledge either complete or perfect. The renowned New Testament interpreter William Barclay has commented on this passage from 1 Corinthians 13:9-12:
The Corinthian mirror was made of highly polished metal and, even at its best, gave but an imperfect reflection ... In this life Paul feels we see only the reflections of God and are left with much that is mystery and riddle ... Even if in Christ we have the perfect revelation, our seeking minds can grasp it only in part, for the finite can never grasp the infinite. Our knowledge is still like the knowledge of a child, But the way of love will lead us in the end to the day when the veil is drawn aside and we see face to face and know even as we are known. (The Letters to the Corinthians, p. 125).
I believe that the only reasonable position is that the Biblical prophets are a mixture of the divine and the human. They received revelation progressively. God revealed Himself to them "line upon line." The prophets increased in their knowledge and understanding, as did those who followed them. The result is that in different ages different prophets have held some different views. Even the same prophet grew in insight and understanding.
From their writings and sermons it seems to me that both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young would have concurred with these conclusions of recent Bible commentators. Both maintained that God had not perfectly nor fully revealed Himself to past prophets nor to themselves. There were, like Paul, looking to the future for God's perfect revelation of Himself and for their own perfect understanding of His revelations. Neither one claimed to be infallible, but rather frequently admitted to his own imperfections (D&C 42:61; 50:24, 40; 78:18; 88:49; 121:28; 124:41; 128:18; JD 2:314; 1:115). Brigham Young once stated as his opinion that:

“Even the best of the Latter-day Saints have but a faint idea of the attributes of the Deity.
Were the former and Latter-day Saints, with their Apostles, Prophets, Seers, and Revelator collected together to discuss this matter, I am led to think there would be found a great variety in their views and feelings upon this subject, without direct revelation from the Lord. It is as much my right to differ from other men, as it is theirs to differ from me, in points of doctrine and principle, when our minds cannot at once arrive at the same conclusion” (JD 2:123).
Many non-Mormon Christians, while admitting that differences exist in the prophetic writings, are not willing to reject the prophets. Neither am I. I am not willing to discard Paul's claims because some of his imperfections and lack of harmony with other prophets and apostles have been pointed out. Neither am I willing to discard Mormonism because opponents can point to a difference between Brigham Young and a Bible prophet, or between him and a succeeding LDS prophet.
I believe those who insist that prophets must be infallible are either uninformed or unreasonable. Either they will find themselves disappointed, or will find themselves constantly refusing an objective examination of the subject. I think it only fair that You as an opponent of Mormonism either relinquish this point, or be prepared to refute the massive evidence of prophetic differences and variations presented by objective Christian Bible scholars.
It is common for Mormons who have examined the Adam-God issue to reject this concept of Brigham Young but not reject him as a prophet believing that both the Bible and Mormon history have revealed that all who have been prophets were yet fallible and susceptible to error. When the evidence against the infallibility of prophets is acknowledged, I believe this position is reasonable. However, there is something, more which needs to be said. I also know some Mormons who believe the Adam-God theory is true, and others who, after considerable exposure, have not yet formed an opinion. In order to understand these other two positions two additional points need attention.
In Rick zeal to portray Mormonism as negatively as possible it is very common for him to charge that the Adam-God theory is absurd and blasphemous, but this greatly exaggerates the issue. This is a charge made in the spirit of ridicule rather than reasoned examination.
The claim is frequently made that Brigham Young believed in a different God, that he did not believe in the God of the Bible. However, in his sermons, when he spoke of God, he clearly had reference to the God of the Bible, the Being who:

“formed the earth (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 117, 352), made promises to Abraham (p. 342), delivered the children of Israel from Egypt (p. 342), gave the Law to Moses (p. 104, 348), and is the Father of Christ” (p. 26, 119).
He did not believe in a different God. He believes that the God of the Bible, He who performed these and many other acts described therein, also came to this earth as Adam. If in error on this point, his error was in believing God performed an act, which He did not perform. The point of difference is not who is God, but rather what has God done.
I have frequently heard Rick respond to the claim that God the Father experienced mortality by crying absurd, or blasphemous. However, you believe, as do Mormons, that:
the "man, Christ Jesus" (1 Tim 2:5), who "grew and waxed strong" (Luke 2:40), "increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man" (Luke 2:52), "learned obedience by the things which he suffered" (Heb 5:8), "was in all points tempted like as we are" (Heb 4:15), who experienced birth, pain, joy, sorrow, anger, and death.
That this man was in fact God the Son passing through mortality. By comparison, Brigham Young believed that:
· God the Father took upon Himself mortality to begin the human race.
· God the Son took upon Himself mortality to redeem the human race.
I can understand how someone who believes the second statement could disbelieve the first one, but I am surprised that those who believe the second one do not hesitate to declare the first one absurd and blasphemous. Why is it any more absurd or blasphemous to believe that God the Father experienced mortality than it is to believe that God the Son did?
I suppose that ultimately whatever is false is also absurd. My point is that until the ultimate truth is revealed what seems absurd or blasphemous is usually that which contradicts a cherished religious tradition. For 2000 years many Jews, upon their understanding of the Old Testament, have condemned the Christian view of Jesus as absurd and blasphemous. I see this approach as an appeal to tradition, not as a worthwhile argument.
The primary argument of those who do not accept the Adam-God theory is that it is not scriptural. I concur with this. I do not believe that it can be supported from the Bible. To me the Biblical message is that Adam's God is our God; his Father is our Father (Genesis, and Luke 3:38). This also seems to be the message of LDS scripture (Moses 2-5, and D&C 78:15-22).
However, it does not necessarily prove that an idea is false to show that previous scripture does not support it, or even that it apparently contradicts previous scripture. If otherwise, then those who rejected the New Testament message were justified. Many rejected Jesus because he came with not only a new message, but also sometimes a different message. Several times in the sermon on the mount Jesus said, "Ye have heard that it hath been said ... But I say unto you ..." (Matthew 5, see also 19:3-12). The Old Testament had one message, but Jesus had another. In Acts 15, when Peter, by authority of the Holy Spirit, announced that circumcision would no longer be required of God's people, he announced a different message than that of the Old Testament, which spoke of it as an everlasting covenant for all generations (Genesis 17).
The New Testament Christians rejected the current Jewish belief that God's message was complete in the Old Testament, and of course Mormonism has rejected the common Catholic and Protestant belief that God's message was completed in the New Testament. We believe that God will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God (Article of Faith, 9). One Bible commentator has characterized the "true prophet" as "a progressive, who continually advanced in knowledge and grace." The false prophet "harped continually on the same old string, merely repeating what former prophets had said ... instead of waiting upon Jehovah himself, and from his never-failing treasury bringing forth 'things new and old'" (Abingdon Commentary, p. 151).
Neither the Bible nor Mormonism has ever claimed that truth is to be found only in the official canon. It must be remembered that every new revelation ever given has always been outside of the official canon initially. To reject an idea simply because it sounds new or different is to reject one of the most fundamental principles of the Judeo-Christian religion epitomized in the statement of Jesus, "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear" (Matt 11:15, etc). He clearly had a deeper message, which those who remain on the surface will never grasp.
As a result of this line of thought, some Mormons believe the Adam-God theory even though it was never official doctrine, never canonized, and not supported from previous scripture. Is true. Personally, I do not find this conclusion unreasonable.

In conclusion I include what I consider to be the most reasonably stated position on the issue. It is extracted from an unpublished letter of President Joseph F. Smith to Bishop Edward Bunker, February 27, 1902:
While it is far from my purpose to stifle thought and free speech among the brethren, or to brand as "false doctrine" any and every mystery of the kingdom, it is never-the less my wish and my advice, in which Presidents Winder and Lund, my counselors, heartily join, that the Elders should not make a practice of preaching upon these abstruse themes, these partly revealed principles, respecting which there are such wide differences of belief.
What is called the Adam God doctrine my properly be classed among the mysteries. The full truth concerning it has not been revealed to us; and until it is revealed all wild speculations, sweeping assertions and dogmatic declarations relative thereto, are out of place and improper. We disapprove of them and especially the public expression of such views ... Let us be content with what is plainly revealed on this subject, namely; that though there be Lords many and Gods many as the Apostle Paul declares, yet to us there is but one God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I have attempted to present as fairly as I could in so brief a work the various attitudes I have encountered on this interesting subject. Whatever conclusion most appeals, I am confident that Brigham Young, if he were here, would be dismayed that his few statements on this one subject have prevented some people from giving a fair examination to the restored gospel and church that inspired and motivated him. A man of remarkable common sense, Brigham Young did not think that the existence of sunspots should lead one to turn away from the sun's warmth and light.

Van Hale

David said...

I have eight hopefully impacting things I would like to say:

1. The Adam/God doctrine may not be looked upon by mainstream Mormons as accepted canon, but if you read the posted article, it shows Joseph Smith taught it as revelation and fact.

2. Jesus existed (as God) with the Father from all eternity and all things were created by Him, through Him and for Him, before He took on flesh and while took on flesh He was fully God and He is fully God now.

3. If you read the posted article you should understand that Christians already understand that Brigham Young thought the Bible was something other than what it is, namely, the inerrant Word of the Almighty One God in three persons. (Don't even talk to me about minor spelling errors in transmission by scribes over the years because it just isn't born out by the facts.)

4. Saying "non-Mormon Christians like Rick" implies that mormons are Christians too. Mormons are decidedly not Christians because they have decided to put their faith in the false version of Jesus the Messiah as created and offered to the world by Joseph Smith.

5. Of course rickb is trying to discourage people from this as he knows that they have been misled.

6. If you were Satan, how would you deceive people? Let me tell you how. You would tell them exactly the same type of thing that Satan told them in the Garden of Eden. You would tell them that there' knowledge that's been hidden from them, but they can have it if they want it, and you would tell them that if they had that knowledge, that they could become gods too.

7. Mormonism isn't a truth that was lost and restored to men. It's just the same old lie that Satan has been telling since the garden of Eden.

8. Please listen to these words, for the sake of your own eternity. I implore you to trust in, cling to and rely on Jesus Christ, the Jesus of the Bible. He alone is the only way, the only truth and the only doorway to eternal life.
May God draw you to Him. This is the prayer of all believing Christians. It is spoken in sincere love.

David said...

Incidentally, anonymous, when you lift a passage from someone else's booklet, word for word, as you did from Van Hale's booklet entitled, "What About the Adam-God Theory?" should should put it into quotation marks and give reference, otherwise someone might think you're trying to pass the words off as your own. Just some friendly advice.
“After examining the evidence, however, I soon became convinced that on at least two occasions Brigham Young had taught a concept which generally has not been accepted by Mormons - namely, that God the Father, the Father of our spirits and the Father of Jesus (of both his body and his spirit), came to this earth, took upon himself mortality, and was known as Adam, the progenitor of the human family. Simply stated, according to President Young, God the Father became Adam. (Journal of Discourses 1:50; Deseret News June 18, 1873). Later I found several other references in which President Young hinted at this belief. (JD 4:216-218, 271; 5:331; 6:274; 7:290; 11:41,42).”

“Over the past 15 years I have found many additional sources which confirm that this idea was taught for a period of time in the past century. They include sermon reports, private diary entries, minutes of meetings, letters, articles, and statements. Many of these are unpublished and have only come to light in the last several years.”

A lot of people have been accusing rickb for plagiarizing items that he did not in fact, plagiarize.

Acknowledging Mr. Hale's writings as his and not your own would go a long way toward distancing yourself from a practice you don't wish to employ.