Monday, February 27, 2006

Atonment. Garden or the Cross?

My next subject of choice, is to cover the Garden or the Cross.
Many LDS member feel the Atonement of Christ took place in the Garden when our Lord sweated great Drops of blood. Not on the Cross as many Believers in the bible alone feel.

I happen to use and like the 1920 edition triple combination bound in leather. In reading the BoM in this edition, I find the word or mention of the Garden in only 4 places.

we find 2 Nephi 2:19 and Alma 42:2 only speaking about Adam and Eve getting thrown out of the garden. And Helaman 7:10 and 9:8,11 speaking about Nephi's garden No mention of the Shedding of Blood for our sins. But we Do read about the Cross or Christ being crucified on the cross for our Sins in the BoM and D and C here in these verses.

Mosiah 3:8-9
Helman 8:14-15 and 14:13-21
3 Nephi 11:14-17 and 20:44 and 27:14 and 28:6-7
Mormon 3:21
Ether 4:1
Moroni 5:1-2 and 10:33
then over in D and C in this long list of verses.
18:11-12 20:23 20:79 21:9 27:2 35:2 45:4,51,52 53:2 76:39,41,69 110:3-5


Now if we look at a few verses in the Old Testament, we find hints of the Cross. We read accounts of the Passover. Their are 71 verses that mention the passover, And when we look at the passover we find the Cross. The blood was put on the door top and sides forming a cross. So when the people would remember the passover they would remember the cross, even though they did not know that was what they were doing.

Another thing we find in the Old Testment in the book of numbers is the placement of the tribes. There were given very specific instructions by God as to how set up camp. some placed in the north, some to the east, some the south and some in the west, with the tabernacle in the center. If you were to hop in a plane and fly over head after this was all set up, you would see the shape of a cross. So every time God looks down at them he see's the Cross, this was what was to come. We do not find this kind of detail about the garden in the Bible or the BoM.

We find a very detailed prophecy of the coming crucifixion of Christ in Psalms 22. We do not read anywhere in the Bible, BoM or any other LDS source this kind of detailed prophecy about the garden.
Below is a list of verses that speak about the Cross.

Mat 27:40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest [it] in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.
Mat 27:42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.
Mar 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
Mark 15:30 Save thyself, and come down from the cross.
Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.
Luke 23:26 And as they led him away, they laid hold upon one Simon, a Cyrenian, coming out of the country, and on him they laid the cross, that he might bear [it] after Jesus.
John 19:19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put [it] on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.
John 19:25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the [wife] of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
John 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and [that] they might be taken away.
1Cr 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1Cr 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
Gal 5:11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.
Gal 6:12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
Gal 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Phl 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Phl 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, [that they are] the enemies of the cross of Christ:
Hbr 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Mar 8:34 And when he had called the people [unto him] with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mar 15:21 And they compel one Simon a Cyrenian, who passed by, coming out of the country, the father of Alexander and Rufus, to bear his cross.
John 19:17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called [the place] of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.


If any one can show me where the atonment really took place in the Garden please show me. Otherwise I hope you search this out for yourselves, Lest your sins are really not forgiven. How can your sins be really forgiven if the atonment you believe took place in the garden really did not happen their?

5 comments:

Anonymous said...

I am sorry you are so caught up in where our saviour died for us, what matters is that we all benifit from His great sacrifice.I know of his great Love for all. Thats what matters to me. teach His Love not whos right or wrong you will bless more lives.

rick b said...

The Bible teachs us to Search the Scriptures, ACTS 17:11.

You say "teach His Love not whos right or wrong".

I am sorry to disappoint you, but the Scriptures are very clear, Their are and were people who teach lies and false doctrine, If we teach this and dont bother to look to see "Who Right or Wrong" We will lead people to hell. And God will judge at the day of judgment.

The Bible also teachs us, people loved a lie rather than the truth, And their is plenty of other scripture to say that your not correct in your view.

but if you dont want to read the bible, or claim you do, but reject what it teachs by showing you are ignoret of what the bible teaches then it tells me, you dont care. Read your Bible, many times it tells us "Not to be ignorent of these things". Rick B

Anonymous said...

Hi Rickb to seem to have missed the real meaning of the Atonement, you should be asking Why he died , rather than where

rick b said...

Hello edger m
You said:
Hi Rickb to seem to have missed the real meaning of the Atonement, you should be asking Why he died , rather than where.

I think it should be the LDS church asking the question to it's self. It is the LDS church that places the greatest weight upon the Garden, rather than the cross. Not me. Rick b

Anonymous said...

I think rickb you just dont understand how we view the atonement and really why should you i have some things on garden/cross from an lds point can I email them to you